Uppercut
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Not in this era though, with these bowling attacks and these pitches. Needs major qualifying. Atherton, Stewart, Hussain >>> Vaughan.
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Vaughan not picked for India tour
- Thread starter SpaceMonkey
- Start date
Woodster
International Captain
Things have changed I agree, although any player playing in this era still has a chance to improve or decline in terms of average as presumably the majority will still be playing.
Marvan Attapattu averaged below, Simon Katich currently does, as does Jacques Rudolph. Decent players.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
hmm. Not sure about that.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Patel should be ahead of the likes of Shah as far as I'm concerned - purely on batting. If you include bowling as well it's even more obvious.
Shah's had enough opportunities already and has never looked like being anything beyond average.
Shah's had enough opportunities already and has never looked like being anything beyond average.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Would argue that Shah has only been given limited opportunities to show what he can do in tests to be honest, has not had a decent run in the side at all, esspecially when you consider the likes of Geraint Jones have been given a great deal many more chances than he has.
Woodster
International Captain
My personal preference would have been for Bopara to go, but you cannot begrudge Shah an opportunity. I'm not sure I'd say he's had enough opportunities already, he has played only 2 Test matches, with over a year in between! Hardly a chance to show what he can do. He has been one of the most consistent domestic performers of the last 5 years, so deserves a shot at the Test side.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Do you have those numbers handy for FC over the past 5 County seasons? Id be interested in the results.
Obviously Ramps would be miles ahead but it wold be interesting to see who filled out the rest of the top 10.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Mentally he just doesn't have it, he's shown this over and over again.
He's the new, not as good in the first place, Mark Ramprakash.
Woodster
International Captain
Here you are Goughy :
2007 (Div 1)
Ramprakash 2026 runs @ 101.30, Di Venuto 1329 @ 66.45, Benkenstein 1278 @ 55.56, Law 1277 @ 63.85 and Key 1250 @ 56.81
Shah (Div 2) 870 runs @ 82.50
2006 (Div 1)
Crawley 1737 runs @ 66.80, Lehman 1706 @ 77.54, Goodwin 1649 @ 63.42, Benkenstein 1427 @ 52.85, Walker 1419 @ 61.69
Shah 1038 @ 37.07
2005 (Div 1)
Joyce 1668 runs @ 61.77, Shah 1650 @ 63.46, Ramprakash 1568 @ 74.66, Key 1556 @ 59.84, Goodwin 1380 @ 57.50
Struggling to locate 2004 list.
2007 (Div 1)
Ramprakash 2026 runs @ 101.30, Di Venuto 1329 @ 66.45, Benkenstein 1278 @ 55.56, Law 1277 @ 63.85 and Key 1250 @ 56.81
Shah (Div 2) 870 runs @ 82.50
2006 (Div 1)
Crawley 1737 runs @ 66.80, Lehman 1706 @ 77.54, Goodwin 1649 @ 63.42, Benkenstein 1427 @ 52.85, Walker 1419 @ 61.69
Shah 1038 @ 37.07
2005 (Div 1)
Joyce 1668 runs @ 61.77, Shah 1650 @ 63.46, Ramprakash 1568 @ 74.66, Key 1556 @ 59.84, Goodwin 1380 @ 57.50
Struggling to locate 2004 list.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
From 2001 onwards, Shah averages 48.94 in First-Class cricket, in 133 matches. If any other England-qualified player (that's England-qualified throughout this period - ie not Stuart Law or Kevin Pietersen) who is not a proven Test failure has done better than this in the same time period I'll eat my computer.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Rubbish. Shah has played 2 Test matches, doing extremely well in the 1st. He's had virtually no opportunities and hence has shown nothing over and over again.
Seem to remember Ian Bell was that once too. Guess if you label enough people the new Ramprakash you're bound to get it right eventually.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Rudolph and Katich have been major disappointments for most of their Test careers, TBH. And Atapattu was not only from the same era as Atherton, Hussain, Stewart etc. (and we'll not even get onto why the overall career averages of these 3 are meaningless) but was also possibly the most inconsistent player in history.
Atapattu, Atherton, Hussain and Stewart all > Vaughan comfortably IMO.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
It depends on what you see Patel's role as TBH. His batting surely is test #6 potential ATM & his bowling although off the an exciting start in ODI would just be decent back-up a la what Symonds would have done for AUS.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Sales had a terrible season in 2002 (injury related IIRC) but still averages 47.12 for the period you detail.
As for the original timeframe ie 5 years
Ive only looked at one other player.
Shah
83 Games, 147 Ins, 6703 runs, 51.96 av
Sales
82 Games, 135 Ins, 6141 runs, 51.61 av
Shah just shades that comparision and it maybe I hit on his closest rival in production with my first pick.
However, his performance has been very productive and steady rather than amazing and deserving of an automatic Test spot.
Interestingly, if you take 6 years as the cut off (rather than 5 or 7) it is Sales that shades it over Shah in terms of average.
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Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Compared to Ian Blackwell that averages 47.07
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
You spotted the "isn't a proven Test failure" bit?
(And that Knight didn't play in 2007 or 2008?)
Magrat Garlick
Global Moderator
Yes, hence in brackets.
There's about 5-6 players who average between 46 and 48, but otherwise your words are safe.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Haha good grief. I knew he'd have a pretty impressive average but that just is silly. How can such a poor batsman do that well while countless better ones merely scrape by or even fall by the wayside?Compared to Ian Blackwell that averages 47.07
Wonder how it looks on a at-Taunton\not-at-Taunton basis (though obviously it's not going to be nothing away from adopted-home).
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Wel just to continue this. Ill add more if I get around to loking at them.
Over past 5 seasons (2004 on)
Sales- 51.61
Blackwell- 48.12
McGrath- 50.05
Shah- 51.96
Pothas- 50.48
Joyce- 46.44
Carberry- 38.91 (so much for certain people touting him as a Tst player after 1 good season)
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