Adam Shantry vs James Tomlinson, September 2008

[Richard]

Bowlers that have more chance of getting on a Lions Tour 08/09 than those two.

Hoggard
Tremlett
Jones
Plunkett
Mahmood
Onions
Richardson
Shreck
Pattinson
Kirby
Lewis
Khan
Ali
Woakes
Bresnan
Finn
Harris
Davies

I'd disagree that Hoggard has any chance (someone seems to have decided he's not going to play for England ever again for whatever reason - and there's no point taking players on A-tours who aren't going to play for England again). Lewis also should not be under any circumstances. Ditto Richardson. Both are too old these days. Plunkett, Mahmood, Finn, Kirby, Amjad Khan and Shreck are all rubbish to poor IMO (highly questionable whether or not several are even good enough for county cricket) and I don't want to see any of them on A-tours. Woakes and Harris are still too young and have not even played a full county season yet. Pattinson, well, he's an interesting case. I can't really comment until we know more about his plans and the selectors' thoughts on him in a long-term capacity.

However, there's no question for mine that Kabir Ali, Tremlett, Simon Jones and Davies have an irrefutable case and if they're not on the tour I'll be disgusted. Bresnan, well, so far he's a Tomlinson, though I do have a bit more hope in the long-term for him - can see him becoming a very useful player for Yorks, something I can't see in Tomlinson for Hants. Not convinced about Bresnan as an international cricketer but if he keeps-up the good work of this season he should certainly be in the frame before too long.

Purely as a bowler though, I think Shantry > Bresnan at this point in time.

 

[Richard]

Tom Smith

I'd want him to get a regular Lancs first-team spot first TBH. Much as I've no doubt whatsoever that if he gets a fair crack of the whip he'll make an irrefutable case for one.

 

[Richard]

How does Wagg compare to these two? I know about the white powder story, but he looks to be putting in some talismanic performances

Wagg is in the Tomlinson\Plunkett\Mahmood\Finn category for mine. Not a remotely good bowler and someone people seem to have got a bit too keen on because of a few fleeting good performances.

 

[Uppercut]

Be fair to Tomlinson, 22 matches over the course of five years isn't easy for anyone to perform for. His first proper run in the team has been a big success, putting him pretty much in the same boat as Shantry. I haven't seen much of either, mind- the 'A' selectors will hopefully be much more well-informed on the actual quality of their bowling than anyone here, so it's difficult to make a case against whichever they choose.

 

[GIMH]

Voted for PM is disabled, how else can you explain the past 15 months being so shambolic?

 

[FBU]

I'd disagree that Hoggard has any chance (someone seems to have decided he's not going to play for England ever again for whatever reason - and there's no point taking players on A-tours who aren't going to play for England again). Lewis also should not be under any circumstances. Ditto Richardson. Both are too old these days. Plunkett, Mahmood, Finn, Kirby, Amjad Khan and Shreck are all rubbish to poor IMO (highly questionable whether or not several are even good enough for county cricket) and I don't want to see any of them on A-tours. Woakes and Harris are still too young and have not even played a full county season yet. Pattinson, well, he's an interesting case. I can't really comment until we know more about his plans and the selectors' thoughts on him in a long-term capacity.

However, there's no question for mine that Kabir Ali, Tremlett, Simon Jones and Davies have an irrefutable case and if they're not on the tour I'll be disgusted. Bresnan, well, so far he's a Tomlinson, though I do have a bit more hope in the long-term for him - can see him becoming a very useful player for Yorks, something I can't see in Tomlinson for Hants. Not convinced about Bresnan as an international cricketer but if he keeps-up the good work of this season he should certainly be in the frame before too long.

Purely as a bowler though, I think Shantry > Bresnan at this point in time.

That list is the bowlers who have been involved with England and Lions tours and I think they will pick from there. Well they owe Ali. I read they got the ankle X-rays mixed up between him and Richardson on the last Lions tour and sent him home by mistake instead of Richardson.

Four bowlers I think they will send on the Lions would be Jones, Ali, Tremlett and Mahmood. I wouldn't pick Tremlett or Mahmood. I'd sent Jones, Ali, Shreck and Davies.

Pattinson is off to Australia next week to play for his club side. Shreck is not allowed to play cricket in New Zealand this winter and has to rest.

 

[GIMH]

That list is the bowlers who have been involved with England and Lions tours and I think they will pick from there. Well they owe Ali. I read they got the ankle X-rays mixed up between him and Richardson on the last Lions tour and sent him home by mistake instead of Richardson.

Four bowlers I think they will send on the Lions would be Jones, Ali, Tremlett and Mahmood. I wouldn't pick Tremlett or Mahmood. I'd sent Jones, Ali, Shreck and Davies.

Pattinson is off to Australia next week to play for his club side. Shreck is not allowed to play cricket in New Zealand this winter and has to rest.

Where did you get this info? I thought he wasn't bothering this year, to try and further his chances of future England selection.

 

[Furball]

Where did you get this info? I thought he wasn't bothering this year, to try and further his chances of future England selection.

Fairly certain it was mentioned during commentary of Notts v Hants, might have been on Friday.

 

[Richard]

Be fair to Tomlinson, 22 matches over the course of five years isn't easy for anyone to perform for. His first proper run in the team has been a big success, putting him pretty much in the same boat as Shantry.

It's not though. Tomlinson's woeful performances when he has played have meant he deserved not to get a run in the side. No-one who's constantly taking 1-120 can possibly expect to play more than 3 games or so on the trot.

OTOH, Shantry who's pretty well taken good figures in every game has certainly earned the chance he just hasn't been given. And if he'd been being kept-out of Surrey in 1999, then fair enough. But when those who've gained their chances ahead of him are David Wigley, David Lucas, Alex Wharf, David Harrison, James Anyon, Neil Carter etc. then it gets a tadge on the ridicuous side. None of these are even close to being county-standard bowlers.

 

[Richard]

Four bowlers I think they will send on the Lions would be Jones, Ali, Tremlett and Mahmood. I wouldn't pick Tremlett or Mahmood. I'd sent Jones, Ali, Shreck and Davies.

I do seriously hope Mahmood doesn't go - he's just managed an average of 32 this season, and that's good by his standards.

Tremlett though, I'd much prefer see go than Shreck. Yes, OK, Tremlett has been extremely disappointing this year, but he is the sort of bowler for whom things can click into place any time and an England A tour would still very possibly benefit him.

Shreck, I've just never rated. And this season almost all his wicket-taking has been middle-order and tail. He's virtually never knocked-over top-orders with the new-ball.

 

[Goughy]

Wagg is in the Tomlinson\Plunkett\Mahmood\Finn category for mine. Not a remotely good bowler and someone people seem to have got a bit too keen on because of a few fleeting good performances.

Whats wrong with Finn? I quite liked the look of him when Ive seen him play

 

[Richard]

I presume you mean you think he looked like he might develop into a decent bowler - because one thing's for certain, he isn't one currently.

 

[Manee]

Whats wrong with Finn? I quite liked the look of him when Ive seen him play

AWTA. I saw him bowl in U19 cricket in the 2006 or 2007 season and he looked most impressive. Although U19 cricket is often a comparitively low level; his ability to extract bounce from a length was most promising.

 

[Anna]

Neither. Chris Woakes, ffs.

Well said.

Richard - leave Carts out of it, he's great.

I'd only vote for Shants because he's rather cute. Shame I only started working at Edgbaston after he left...

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Whats wrong with Finn? I quite liked the look of him when Ive seen him play

He's a tall, bouncy bowler. Richard hates those types.

 

[Anna]

He hates many things.

Has it been proven yet that he is, infact, an 80 year old county cricket club member?

 

[sledger]

Round about the same time it was established that Grant Nicholas was actually gay all along tbh.

 

[Furball]

Granted, the only time I've seen him was on Sky last week, but Shreck looked distinctly average.

 

[bryce]

He's a tall, bouncy bowler. Richard hates those types.

I think I remember him backing Tremlett at one stage so this may not be the case

 

[tooextracool]

Having just looked at Davies FC performances this season it appears as though Durham have gone through lengths trying to protect his average. The majority of his wickets have come in a small number of games in the season( more than a third of his wickets this season came in 2 innings) and hes generally protected by bowling less overs whenever hes not taking wickets. Out of curiousity has anyone seen him bowl yet?