Adam Shantry vs James Tomlinson, September 2008

[Richard]

If you're not an England supporter you can probably look away now. But there's a chance these two are going to be fighting it out for a place on an England A tour in 2008/09 (there's also a chance both will go, of course).

Tomlinson has been suggested several times on CW as a potential A tourist. Shantry has not. Shantry, in fact, must be the best bowler at being overlooked despite fairly outstanding performance in recent times. Tomlinson has taken 67 wickets in 16 matches this season (with 1 innings to go he could quite conceivably hit the magic 70 mark); Shantry has taken 51 in 15 in his career, which started in 2003, to date.

However, Shantry has taken them at 19.29. He has played for Northants and Warwickshire before his current county Glamorgan (whose side he only got into mid-season). All of these teams have during his time with them used copious numbers of seamers whose quality varies from mediocre to woeful. Why has he not played more? It's utterly inexplicable.

Tomlinson, on the other hand, took 47 wickets at 48.06 in 22 matches between 2002 and 2007. His case strikes me as more one-off fluke season material than anything.

If you had to choose one of these two for this winter's A tour, who'd you go for?

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'd save the plane ticket.

 

[Richard]

Well they're not going to be sending an A-tour party of 7. Sometimes you have to make the choice between not-ideal and not-at-all-ideal.

Although part of the point is that I happen to think Shantry is rather better than just about anyone in the country seems to have given him credit for in the last 5 years.

 

[Matteh]

Neither. Chris Woakes, ffs.

 

[Manee]

Somehow, I knew this thread would be started by Richard. Richard, you seem obsessd with Shantry, there is a very large chance that his statistics have flattered him up to date and he isn't actually that good.

 

[Goughy]

I know virtually nothing about either of these guys.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Somehow, I knew this thread would be started by Richard. Richard, you seem obsessd with Shantry, there is a very large chance that his statistics have flattered him up to date and he isn't actually that good.

On the contrary, I would be almost certain that Richard is a far more sound judge of a bowler's ability than any number of county coaches and managers who have seen Shantry bowl day-in, day-out for five years.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He's got no pace whatsoever, basically.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

I know virtually nothing about either of these guys.

Other than a handful of televised Pro40/FP appearances, I think just about everyone here would be in a similar position to you. No point in making judgements when you aren't qualified to do so.

 

[Richard]

He's got no pace whatsoever, basically.

I'm not entirely sure where that's especially mentioned in that particular piece, frankly.

 

[Richard]

Somehow, I knew this thread would be started by Richard. Richard, you seem obsessd with Shantry, there is a very large chance that his statistics have flattered him up to date and he isn't actually that good.

On the contrary, I would be almost certain that Richard is a far more sound judge of a bowler's ability than any number of county coaches and managers who have seen Shantry bowl day-in, day-out for five years.

Like it or not, if you've managed excellent figures when barely playing 2 games on the trot, I'm afraid you're rather better than some useless waste of space who's taking 20 or 30 wickets at 40 or 50-odd from 8 or 9 games per season. Or, worse, a James Tredwell who's playing every game and making roughly zero impact with the ball.

Experience suggests selectors and coaches at international, never mind county, level don't neccessarily have a clue what they're doing. I'm not automatically going to decide someone must be useless just because a few county coaches appear not to rate him if he's done well just about every time he's played.

One vaguely useful thing that article hints at is how often he's suffered injuries at the wrong time. Hopefully that's the main reason rather than some idiot coach not realising how good he is.

If Shantry's figures have flattered him to date, we'll find-out in due course. He deserves the chance to show us whether they haven't, however.

 

[Matteh]

Other than a handful of televised Pro40/FP appearances, I think just about everyone here would be in a similar position to you. No point in making judgements when you aren't qualified to do so.

Shantry's been crap for Warks. in just about every ICC version going.

 

[stumpski]

Guys, guys ... vote Tomlinson. Richard doesn't rate him. Reason enough.



Also, possible late developer.

 

[fredfertang]

Saj Mahmood

 

[PhoenixFire]

I chose the most relevant option. I have NFI who either of them are TBH.

 

[FBU]

Bowlers that have more chance of getting on a Lions Tour 08/09 than those two.

Hoggard
Tremlett
Jones
Plunkett
Mahmood
Onions
Richardson
Shreck
Pattinson
Kirby
Lewis
Khan
Ali
Woakes
Bresnan
Finn
Harris
Davies

 

[Craig]

I chose the most relevant option. I have NFI who either of them are TBH.

And here I was thinking you were not really English.

 

[morgieb]

Neither, but if I had to choose, Shantry.

 

[superkingdave]

Tom Smith

 

[bryce]

Shantry's been crap for Warks. in just about every ICC version going.

How does Wagg compare to these two? I know about the white powder story, but he looks to be putting in some talismanic performances