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[Fusion]

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ACCORDING to a press release, Gen Ashfaq Kayani has declared the army’s intention to fight any intrusion across our borders at “any cost”, and “against all odds”. This should reassure all Pakistanis who have been paying enormous amounts for the army to do just that.

But I would like to ask Gen Kayani why the army has not demonstrated the same degree of vigilance and sense of duty where the Taliban and Al Qaeda are concerned. After all, militants, extremists, terrorists, drug smugglers and gunrunners have been crossing the Durand Line that notionally divides Pakistan from Afghanistan for years without being challenged or hindered. Had the army been doing its job these last few years, Pakistan’s survival might not have been under threat as it is today.

However, when a squad of American Navy Seal commandos entered Pakistan to engage suspected militants recently, hawks in Pakistan went into paroxysms of patriotism. Don’t get me wrong: I am not arguing that the Americans are justified in attacking targets on Pakistani soil. But I am questioning the selective defence of our sovereignty. If we denounce the American cross-border attacks, should we not ask why the Taliban are allowed free access to our territory to target us and conduct raids into Afghanistan?

Cute articles SJS, but completely devoid of ground realities and facts. The articles fail to mention that outside of the US, no other country has lost more of its soldiers in the war on terror than Pakistan. No other country has deployed as many troops to battle the terrorists than Pakistan. No other country has chosen to engage in almost a civil war type warfare to rid the militants from its soil. The situation in the Pakistani border is a complicated one. It wasn’t created overnight and it won’t be fixed overnight. Pakistan certainly is to blame for a lot of it, but so are other countries, chief among them being the United States. If you are trying to prove that Pakistanis need to confront terrorism, then you can stop lecturing now. We get it, thank you very much. We get it each time a brave soldier dies confronting those terrorist. We get it each time an innocent bystander is blown apart by those terrorist. And we get it when even the mundane things in life (relatively speaking) like playing cricket are no longer possible because of the havoc created by those terrorist. It’s very easy to say (whether by outsiders or insiders) that “Pakistan is not doing enough”. There’s no freaking magic wand here. Winning this war will take time and a lot more sacrifice by Pakistanis. We get it. Do you?

source
.Dawn, a leading daily English newspaper of Pakistan​

Cute articles SJS, but completely devoid of ground realities and facts. The articles fail to mention that outside of the US, no other country has lost more of its soldiers in the war on terror than Pakistan. No other country has deployed as many troops to battle the terrorists than Pakistan. No other country has chosen to engage in almost a civil war type warfare to rid the militants from its soil. The situation in the Pakistani border is a complicated one. It wasn’t created overnight and it won’t be fixed overnight. Pakistan certainly is to blame for a lot of it, but so are other countries, chief among them being the United States. If you are trying to prove that Pakistanis need to confront terrorism, then you can stop lecturing now. We get it, thank you very much. We get it each time a brave soldier dies confronting those terrorist. We get it each time an innocent bystander is blown apart by those terrorist. And we get it when even the mundane things in life (relatively speaking) like playing cricket are no longer possible because of the havoc created by those terrorist. It’s very easy to say (whether by outsiders or insiders) that “Pakistan is not doing enough”. There’s no freaking magic wand here. Winning this war will take time and a lot more sacrifice by Pakistanis. We get it. Do you?

 

[R_D]

Cute articles SJS, but completely devoid of ground realities and facts. The articles fail to mention that outside of the US, no other country has lost more of its soldiers in the war on terror than Pakistan. No other country has deployed as many troops to battle the terrorists than Pakistan. No other country has chosen to engage in almost a civil war type warfare to rid the militants from its soil. The situation in the Pakistani border is a complicated one. It wasn’t created overnight and it won’t be fixed overnight. Pakistan certainly is to blame for a lot of it, but so are other countries, chief among them being the United States. If you are trying to prove that Pakistanis need to confront terrorism, then you can stop lecturing now. We get it, thank you very much. We get it each time a brave soldier dies confronting those terrorist. We get it each time an innocent bystander is blown apart by those terrorist. And we get it when even the mundane things in life (relatively speaking) like playing cricket are no longer possible because of the havoc created by those terrorist. It’s very easy to say (whether by outsiders or insiders) that “Pakistan is not doing enough”. There’s no freaking magic wand here. Winning this war will take time and a lot more sacrifice by Pakistanis. We get it. Do you?

Probably forgot to add.. no other country has advocated and helped terrorism as much as Pakistan. More than half these problems are self created by Pakistan army. They were the ones who set up all these Militant camps and now they are turning against them. ISI seems to have lost control of them.
What goes round comes around...

 

[Xuhaib]

Probably forgot to add.. no other country has advocated and helped terrorism as much as Pakistan. More than half these problems are self created by Pakistan army. They were the ones who set up all these Militant camps and now they are turning against them. ISI seems to have lost control of them.
What goes round comes around...

Masive

I know ISI is behind a lot of terrorist activities in India, And RAW does the same in Pakistan. Learn to admit things instead of closing ur eyes just coz your own countey in involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows who is behind the Baloch separtists. Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.
__________________

 

[Dasa]

Cute articles SJS, but completely devoid of ground realities and facts. The articles fail to mention that outside of the US, no other country has lost more of its soldiers in the war on terror than Pakistan. No other country has deployed as many troops to battle the terrorists than Pakistan. No other country has chosen to engage in almost a civil war type warfare to rid the militants from its soil. The situation in the Pakistani border is a complicated one. It wasn’t created overnight and it won’t be fixed overnight. Pakistan certainly is to blame for a lot of it, but so are other countries, chief among them being the United States. If you are trying to prove that Pakistanis need to confront terrorism, then you can stop lecturing now. We get it, thank you very much. We get it each time a brave soldier dies confronting those terrorist. We get it each time an innocent bystander is blown apart by those terrorist. And we get it when even the mundane things in life (relatively speaking) like playing cricket are no longer possible because of the havoc created by those terrorist. It’s very easy to say (whether by outsiders or insiders) that “Pakistan is not doing enough”. There’s no freaking magic wand here. Winning this war will take time and a lot more sacrifice by Pakistanis. We get it. Do you?

Excellent post.

 

[Fusion]

Karachi, September 23: The Pakistan Cricket Board is willing to play the planned two-match home Test series against West Indies at a neutral venue if the Caribbean side has apprehensions about touring the troubled nation in the wake of Islamabad blasts.
Pakistan has invited West Indies to tour Pakistan for the Tests immediately after the two countries play a three-match one-day series in Abu Dhabi from November 12 to 16.

The West Indies Cricket Board is yet to respond to the invitation and their senior players have expressed reluctance to tour Pakistan in present conditions.

A senior official of the board admitted that after the bomb attack on the Marriott hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan needed to look at its options differently.

"I think we need to now deal with this issue of teams not touring Pakistan because of security concerns more maturely. We must also look at other options in given conditions," Shafqat Naghmi, chief operating officer of the Board said.

"Cricket needs to go on in Pakistan and we can't go without international cricket for long. We have told the West Indies that we are now willing to consider playing the two Tests in Abu Dhabi.

"The series is already a loss for us but it will at least provide our players a chance to play international cricket," he added.

He admitted that after the latest bomb blast, Pakistan cricket found itself in a difficult position. "The Indians have approved their tour itinerary for early next year for the series in Pakistan. But we will be flexible even for the tour venues," he said.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-...Windies/364916/

I think the PCB has adopted the right attitude now. We can no longer expect a country to tour Pakistan in the near future. As much as I opposed it before, I guess playing cricket somewhere is better than not playing at all.

 

[Precambrian]

Masive

I know ISI is behind a lot of terrorist activities in India, And RAW does the same in Pakistan. Learn to admit things instead of closing ur eyes just coz your own countey in involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows who is behind the Baloch separtists. Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.
__________________

Duh, i thought RAW was the most incompetent intelligence in the whole world. I don't buy this argument that they are behind Baloch seperatists because they simply don't have a motive, and hardly has the political free-go to do such things, unlike the ISI, which has become above the government.

Pakistan would do well to cut off US action in it's territory in the name of war against terror, because as they proved in Iraq, brute force will never ever kill terrorism.

 

[godofcricket]

Winning this war will take time and a lot more sacrifice by Pakistanis. We get it. Do you?

Just to add, if they continue bombing places, it will never end. It will only take time to improve once they stop all this war nonsense, based on pure lies.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Cute articles SJS, but completely devoid of ground realities and facts. The articles fail to mention that outside of the US, no other country has lost more of its soldiers in the war on terror than Pakistan. No other country has deployed as many troops to battle the terrorists than Pakistan. No other country has chosen to engage in almost a civil war type warfare to rid the militants from its soil. The situation in the Pakistani border is a complicated one. It wasn’t created overnight and it won’t be fixed overnight. Pakistan certainly is to blame for a lot of it, but so are other countries, chief among them being the United States. If you are trying to prove that Pakistanis need to confront terrorism, then you can stop lecturing now. We get it, thank you very much. We get it each time a brave soldier dies confronting those terrorist. We get it each time an innocent bystander is blown apart by those terrorist. And we get it when even the mundane things in life (relatively speaking) like playing cricket are no longer possible because of the havoc created by those terrorist. It’s very easy to say (whether by outsiders or insiders) that “Pakistan is not doing enough”. There’s no freaking magic wand here. Winning this war will take time and a lot more sacrifice by Pakistanis. We get it. Do you?

Largely agree with this. Pakistan is doing enough, it's just that the army isn't built to fight a counterinsurgency in such remote territory. Even NATO is having enough trouble in Afghanistan as it is.

Now the problem is that if Pakistan can't defeat the militants in Waziristan, the US+NATO has to go in and evict them otherwise Afghanistan simply can't be won. And the Pakistani military and intelligence which parts sympathise with the Taliban point blank refuse to let them in. If Pakistan can't deal with the problem and won't let anyone else deal with the problem then nothing can be done. Time to leave Afghanistan and let the region fall into anarchy, will get it over and done with sooner and with less loss of life. Would also allow us to focus on Iraq, which is going well at the moment.

 

[godofcricket]

Fact of the matter that Pakistan is the breeding ground of many terrorist, ISI clearly runs many terrorists camps and has been doing so for past 2 decades or so.
Obviously Taliban have more than few sympathizers in Pakistan army and hence why the war in Afghanistan hasn't been going too well. Pakistan army allows teh Taliban to regroup in the tirbal areas. USA has finally realised than Pakistan army's doing jack all.. all the aid given by USA is obviousally being to upgrade the army to get ready for a future war with India.

Seeing as Pakistan don't seem to have much of control over tribal area in the first place... i don't see why they don't let USA try and weed out the taliban from there.

You look like an innocent kid who just follows what media has to write about pakistan.

 

[godofcricket]

Largely agree with this. Pakistan is doing enough, it's just that the army isn't built to fight a counterinsurgency in such remote territory. Even NATO is having enough trouble in Afghanistan as it is.

Now the problem is that if Pakistan can't defeat the militants in Waziristan, the US+NATO has to go in and evict them otherwise Afghanistan simply can't be won. And the Pakistani military and intelligence which parts sympathise with the Taliban point blank refuse to let them in. If Pakistan can't deal with the problem and won't let anyone else deal with the problem then nothing can be done. Time to leave Afghanistan and let the region fall into anarchy, will get it over and done with sooner and with less loss of life. Would also allow us to focus on Iraq, which is going well at the moment.

Terrorism CANNOT be won through war. Why is it soo hard for some people to understand this?

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Terrorism CANNOT be won through war. Why is it soo hard for some people to understand this?

Northern Ireland. Iraq is being won as well now. Of course terrorism like pretty much anything can't just be defeated through war, there also has to be political/social/economic offensives as well, but of course that can't be enacted without a military element in many cases. The formation of domestic Iraqi and Afghan governments, talk of "hearts and minds" and operations like in Kajaki dam is evidence of this.

 

[Xuhaib]

Duh, i thought RAW was the most incompetent intelligence in the whole world. I don't buy this argument that they are behind Baloch seperatists because they simply don't have a motive, and hardly has the political free-go to do such things, unlike the ISI, which has become above the government.

Pakistan would do well to cut off US action in it's territory in the name of war against terror, because as they proved in Iraq, brute force will never ever kill terrorism.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Paks_new_port_has_strategic_implications_for_India_Navy_chief/articleshow/2720790.cms

Potentially Gwadar and a strong local Pak navy could strangulate the final bits of Indian sea trade with Chabbar, after a land route blockade from Pakistan so yes there is a motive..

 

[silentstriker]

Haha, yes. We are defeating terrorists in Iraq!

 

[PhoenixFire]

Manan, can I catch you on MSN?

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

Haha, yes. We are defeating terrorists in Iraq!

I agree with the article, I think the invasion of Iraq was a terrible idea and it only served to increase terrorism. But my point was about the situation in Iraq currently, not the effect of the invasion of Iraq on worldwide levels of terrorism. One measure is that there were 904 US deaths in Iraq during 2007, so far in 2008 the number is just 262.

 

[Precambrian]

Terrorism CANNOT be won through war. Why is it soo hard for some people to understand this?

Yes, religion based terrorism is hardly limited to geographical boundaries. Razing down a country or two, will only accentuate the problem, than solve it. The US is simply interested in a pissing contest, costing so many lives of it's own as well as of other countries.

 

[Precambrian]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Paks_new_port_has_strategic_implications_for_India_Navy_chief/articleshow/2720790.cms

Potentially Gwadar and a strong local Pak navy could strangulate the final bits of Indian sea trade with Chabbar, after a land route blockade from Pakistan so yes there is a motive..

Blah, Baloch problem has been there even before this development took place.

 

[Xuhaib]

Blah, Baloch problem has been there even before this development took place.

The Gawadar project has been in the pipeline since early 90's I dont think the Baloch problem is older then this.

 

[godofcricket]

I agree with the article, I think the invasion of Iraq was a terrible idea and it only served to increase terrorism. But my point was about the situation in Iraq currently, not the effect of the invasion of Iraq on worldwide levels of terrorism. One measure is that there were 904 US deaths in Iraq during 2007, so far in 2008 the number is just 262.

We were talking about terrorism in the first place. Why are you looking at US deaths only? Do u have any idea how many iraqi people are being killed each day?

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

We were talking about terrorism in the first place. Why are you looking at US deaths only? Do u have any idea how many iraqi people are being killed each day?

Yes, civilian deaths have fallen dramatically as well*. Cynics theorise it's because of the religious slaughter has ended in mostly homogenous neighbourhoods which is partly true, but it's also because Al Qaeda has scaled back operations and the Mahdi Army was boned pretty badly in March.

*http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/