***Official Australia in India***

[silentstriker]

 

[Salamuddin]

I do not want to play Lee with crazy bounce.

And when do you get pitches with "crazy" bounce in India ?

Mohali in 1994 was probably the bounciest Indian wicket that I've seen....nothing since has come close.

 

[TT Boy]

Not sure why the pitch is getting so much attention. There are all going to be flat and slow as **** (i.e. the typical Indian wicket) and the only time that is going to change is when the Indians find themselves 1-0.

 

[Salamuddin]

Not sure why the pitch is getting so much attention. There are all going to be flat and slow as **** (i.e. the typical Indian wicket) and then only time that is going to change is when the Indians find themselves 1-0.

Still sore as hell over Kanpur I see

Still think RSA have only themselves to blame for losing that match though....

 

[TT Boy]

And when do you get pitches with "crazy" bounce in India ?

Mohali in 1994 was probably the bounciest Indian wicket that I've seen....nothing since has come close.

Ahmedabad this year. The ball occasionally reached waist height.

 

[TT Boy]

Still sore as hell over Kanpur I see

Still think RSA have only themselves to blame for losing that match though....

Yes. But I agree with your point, South Africa were in a good/great position and blew it but that doesn't detract from the fact acknowledged by the ICC and the games match referee that the wicket was under-prepared and wasn't fit for test cricket.
And I doubt that would have occurred if India was winning the series or the series was level going into Kanpur, a venue which is notoriously known for being rather flat and not a square turner from day one.

 

[Salamuddin]

Yes. But I agree with your point, South Africa were in a good/great position and blew it but that doesn't detract from the fact acknowledged by the ICC and the games match referee that the wicket was under-prepared and wasn't fit for test cricket.
And I doubt that would have occurred if India was winning the series or the series was level going into Kanpur, a venue which is notoriously known for being rather flat and not a square turner from day one.

Actually Kanpur does have a reputation for producing tracks that turn sharply.....
both tests against RSA in 1996 and New Zealand in 1999 offered plenty of assistance to the spinners.

 

[Ikki]

World all time? That's tough for me to grant, I'd definitely put Sobers and Hobbs ahead, and probably 5-6 others. If he does well, he'd definitely be in the top ten all time world. Maybe the top seven. I think he'll be very close to Chappell, and if he keeps going for another year or two, will pass him.

Hobbs, it's iffy, mainly because the generations are hard to compare. Sobers? I'd like to hear how, because if you grant him his record to be fixed in India he'd have an even better one than Sobers.

A question, who do you think is better, Tendulkar or G. Chappell?

 

[pup11]

BCCI President XI: Yuvraj Singh (captain), S. Badrinath (vice-captain), Wasim Jaffer, Akash Chopra, Rohit Sharma, Virat Kholi, Parthiv Patel (wk), Irfan Pathan [Images], S. Sreesanth , Piyush Chawla , Pragyan Ojha, Pankaj Singh, Manpreet Gony, Yogesh Takawale, Rakesh Dhruve

Why can't Tendulkar play in this game and get some valuable match practice and also prove his fitness in the process.

 

[silentstriker]

Hobbs, it's iffy, mainly because the generations are hard to compare. Sobers? I'd like to hear how, because if you grant him his record to be fixed in India he'd have an even better one than Sobers.

A question, who do you think is better, Tendulkar or G. Chappell?

Very close, depends on which days you asked me, I could probably switch them around.

As for Sobers, in the decade that Ponting has averaged 50+, the following people have also averaged 50+:

1. Hayden
2. Ponting
3. Kallis
4. Dravid
5. Sangakarra
6. Jayawardane
7. Lara
8. Tendulkar
9. Chanderpaul
10. Sehwag
11. Yousuf
12. Younis Khan
13. Inzamam Ul-Haq
14. Pietersen
15. Kirstin
16. Thorpe
17. Waugh
18. Hussey
19. Tillakaratne

Minimum Tests: 25

In the 1960s, the following people averaged 50+:

1. Barrington
2. Sobers
3. Dexter
4. Simpson
5. Graveley

Minimum Tests: 25

In the 1970s, the following people averaged 50+:

1. Gavaskar
2. Chappell
3. Boycott
4. Redpath
5. Richards
6. Miandad

Note: Sobers also averaged 50+, but he played only 17 matches.

If anything, I am overrating people of this decade. However, Ponting has undoubtedly been the best batsman for a while now, and thus deserves his accolades. And the fact that I don't put too much stock in this, but its certainly a factor to consider when rating the batsmen of the last eight or so years.

 

[R_D]

really looking forward to this series..... should be good
Hoping for 2-0 win from India.

 

[Ikki]

Very close, depends on which days you asked me, I could probably switch them around.

As for Sobers, in the decade that Ponting has averaged 50+, the following people have also averaged 50+:

1. Hayden
2. Ponting
3. Kallis
4. Dravid
5. Sangakarra
6. Jayawardane
7. Lara
8. Tendulkar
9. Chanderpaul
10. Sehwag
11. Yousuf
12. Younis Khan
13. Inzamam Ul-Haq
14. Pietersen
15. Kirstin
16. Thorpe
17. Waugh
18. Hussey
19. Tillakaratne

Minimum Tests: 25

In the 1960s, the following people averaged 50+:

1. Barrington
2. Sobers
3. Dexter
4. Simpson
5. Graveley

Minimum Tests: 25

In the 1970s, the following people averaged 50+:

1. Gavaskar
2. Chappell
3. Boycott
4. Redpath
5. Richards
6. Miandad

Note: Sobers also averaged 50+, but he played only 17 matches.

If anything, I am overrating people of this decade. However, Ponting has undoubtedly been the best batsman for a while now, and thus deserves his accolades. And the fact that I don't put too much stock in this, but its certainly a factor to consider when rating the batsmen of the last eight or so years.

Most of the people you named have overlapping careers and others played at different times in Ponting's career. Ask this, how many of batsmen, since 2000 have averaged 60 (because 51 is 50+ and 60 is 50+ too), without Bangladesh and Zimbabwe included and the answer is ONLY Ponting.

The fact that other batsmen did not have minnows compared to the likes of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, as well as there also being more teams (and more 'good' teams) now, contribute to there being more 50+ batsmen. Ponting also has a much more complete record than Sobers - more teams and more conditions faced. And whilst averages may be a few points higher, it doesn't explain the fact that Ponting scores more 50s and 100s per inning - it isn't any easier scoring those big runs.

I do not see how Ponting needs to be one of, if not the, most complete batsmen ever just to get close to Chappell, yet Tendulkar is already there with a record that does not match Ponting's. Remembering that Ponting has been the premier batsmen for most of the years both players have plied their trade. I mean, Viv Richards gets a right hiding by you guys because of his average, yet Tendulkar's average, minus minnows, is barely better than Viv's.

Someone like Sobers, did not only do poorly when faced away with New Zealand, he did badly at home vs them, and also at home vs Australia. Whereas Ponting lowest average at home vs a team is 48 against West Indies (unless you want to count the 2 tests he had against Bangladesh). Furthermore, Sobers only played against 5 countries, Hobbs 3 and Ponting against 10 different teams - no one has matched his consistency over so many opponents.

This is the list of batsmen with a 50+ average since Ponting's arrival into the Test scene, with Zimbabwe and Bangladesh taken out:

Call this what it is, a rant, but I find it ridiculous that someone like Ponting hasn't broken into that "club" of Tendulkar/Lara/Chappell/Sobers, etc.

 

[silentstriker]

Most of the people you named have overlapping careers and others played at different times in Ponting's career. Ask this, how many of batsmen, since 2000 have averaged 60 (because 51 is 50+ and 60 is 50+ too), without Bangladesh and Zimbabwe included and the answer is ONLY Ponting.

The fact that other batsmen did not have minnows compared to the likes of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, as well as there also being more teams (and more 'good' teams) now, contribute to there being more 50+ batsmen. Ponting also has a much more complete record than Sobers - more teams and more conditions faced. And whilst averages may be a few points higher, it doesn't explain the fact that Ponting scores more 50s and 100s per inning - it isn't any easier scoring those big runs.

I do not see how Ponting needs to be one of, if not the, most complete batsmen ever just to get close to Chappell, yet Tendulkar is already there with a record that does not match Ponting's. Remembering that Ponting has been the premier batsmen for most of the years both players have plied their trade. I mean, Viv Richards gets a right hiding by you guys because of his average, yet Tendulkar's average, minus minnows, is barely better than Viv's.

Someone like Sobers, did not only do poorly when faced away with New Zealand, he did badly at home vs them, and also at home vs Australia. Whereas Ponting lowest average at home vs a team is 48 against West Indies (unless you want to count the 2 tests he had against Bangladesh). Furthermore, Sobers only played against 5 countries, Hobbs 3 and Ponting against 10 different teams - no one has matched his consistency over so many opponents.

This is the list of batsmen with a 50+ average since Ponting's arrival into the Test scene, with Zimbabwe and Bangladesh taken out:

Call this what it is, a rant, but I find it ridiculous that someone like Ponting hasn't broken into that "club" of Tendulkar/Lara/Chappell/Sobers, etc.

All that is very fair enough, and that's why he will be right up there if he fixes his record. I said Chappell/Tendulkar were about equal, and Ponting would be right up there.

 

[Ikki]

My point was, in short, why is Tendulkar equal with Chappell when as it is - and even at his peak - his record is not even near as good as Ponting's. Yet Ponting, who's record even now is superior, cannot compare with Tendulkar, let alone Chappell.

 

[Uppercut]

As I've stated before, i'm of the opinion that Tendulkar's overall run-scoring ability is a tad overrated. Fantastic to watch though, an unbelievably good technique.

 

[Sanz]

Very close, depends on which days you asked me, I could probably switch them around.

As for Sobers, in the decade that Ponting has averaged 50+, the following people have also averaged 50+:

1. Hayden
2. Ponting
3. Kallis
4. Dravid
5. Sangakarra
6. Jayawardane
7. Lara
8. Tendulkar
9. Chanderpaul
10. Sehwag
11. Yousuf
12. Younis Khan
13. Inzamam Ul-Haq
14. Pietersen
15. Kirstin
16. Thorpe
17. Waugh
18. Hussey
19. Tillakaratne

Minimum Tests: 25

In the 1960s, the following people averaged 50+:

1. Barrington
2. Sobers
3. Dexter
4. Simpson
5. Graveley

Minimum Tests: 25

In the 1970s, the following people averaged 50+:

1. Gavaskar
2. Chappell
3. Boycott
4. Redpath
5. Richards
6. Miandad

Note: Sobers also averaged 50+, but he played only 17 matches.

If anything, I am overrating people of this decade. However, Ponting has undoubtedly been the best batsman for a while now, and thus deserves his accolades. And the fact that I don't put too much stock in this, but its certainly a factor to consider when rating the batsmen of the last eight or so years.

In the 60s (25+ Tests), only one player averaged in 60+ and that was Garfield Sobers, (obviously all of it was against minnows though )
In the 70s, there was only one player who averaged in 60+ Javed Miandad

In 200s there are 4 players who are averaging 60+

In the 90s, there was no one (25+ tests) who averaged 60+, The closest was SRT with 58, next to him was SR Waugh with 53 and then Brian Lara 51.6..thats like miles behind SRT. Ponting was light years behind. But hey we have been through this before..Now I wait for the countless spreadsheets and twisted stats from the crusaders of 'Ricky Boy the best batsman Since Sir DON' ..Yeah that is definitely going to change the opinion of cricket fans.

 

[Sanz]

As I've stated before, i'm of the opinion that Tendulkar's overall run-scoring ability is a tad overrated. Fantastic to watch though, an unbelievably good technique.

Or may be that is why more people rate him best of his generation. No one really gives a **** if SRT has an average that is less than Mohammad Nawaz or Dion Nash. They dont look at his averages to form the opinion why he is the best of his generation.

As for his run getting ability - Yeah certainly it is over-rated...12000 Test Runs and 16000 ODIs with 39 and 42 100s. Ridiculously Over rated batsman.

 

[Johnners]

I was making a point, not suggesting a reasonable course of action. I do not want to play Lee with crazy bounce.

Woosie

 

[Ikki]

For HB

 

[honestbharani]

Guys, can we NOT use the tour thread for player V player comparisons and rankings??? I am sure someone can start a "Where do you rate Ponting?" thread for this purpose... Cool it..