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*Official* English Football Season 2008-2009

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Is there any better striker in England to replace Wazza?. No. He has banged in the goals for England a great deal since EURO 04 yea, but every ENG player this decade except for J Cole & Owen have had questions of them going missing or looking out of form except when injured, thus it always comes back to the fact that these blokes are played out of position plus have lost the no how to play the English way especially during the lacklusture Sven era.

Simply put having Rooney on the park is better than not having him, since i know his international goal drougth wouldn't last forever. I honestly don't feel he has peaked fully yet the last few years he has showed great versatility that even a young Owen didn't show. I reckon his final touch has let him down a fair bit also since i remember many times him getting some superb passes & not putting it away for ENG then for United the next week he does, just a phase IMHO.
Crouch/Heskey to replace him. Sure they're not better in theory on paper, but Crouch certainly has done better than Rooney in the last 2 years for England.
Christ you'd be hard pushed to called Rooney a striker these days anyway, drops back into midfield a stupid amount and is one of the main reasons he's just nowhere near as effective as he was.
Phases traditionally are short, 4 years is by no means short, quarter of a career.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Aye, Carrick is definitely up there with the best passers in the EPL.
It’s a cliché but if you pass the ball backwards and only five yards then of course your passing is going to look 'good'. I like a lot of Man U players but in all honesty, Carrick's ****.
What does he offer? Looks pretty enough but he has no substance and no bite. At least with the likes of Hargreaves your got a guy with one serious tank who does like putting his foot in and he can pass the ball as well.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
One feels that passing isn't a particularly strong aspect of Scholes' game, the likes of Fabregas, Alonso, Arteta and Hargreaves are all better at passing than he is, and probably better than Carrick as well imo.
I find it amusing that you openly state that Carrick is without a doubt the best passer of the ball in England, but as soon as someone says something to suggest otherwise you come out and name someone who is "probably ahead of him".
I put the "I think" because I couldn't think of anyone better at that time. When I wrote a response to you and was about to press submit I remembered Alonso. Besides it's subjective who's better so it would be silly to declare that Alonso is definitely ahead of him.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
It’s a cliché but if you pass the ball backwards and only five yards then of course your passing is going to look 'good'. I like a lot of Man U players but in all honesty, Carrick's ****.
What does he offer? Looks pretty enough but he has no substance and no bite. At least with the likes of Hargreaves your got a guy with one serious tank who does like putting his foot in and he can pass the ball as well.
This is how the muppets on Utd forums I've been on talk about Carrick. Kinda similar to Ferdinand. Man Utd are a better team with him than without him. Take from that what you will.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Meh, so? England have played Andorra a few times in the last 6 years, did the strike partnership do against them on Saturday, 0 goals. Still need to put them away.

Partnership that banged in the most against quality opposition is Rooney/Owen, but that was when Rooney was scoring for fun in 03/04, now he's got progressively worse it shouldn't be contemplated.
Haha, yeah I agree, goals need to be scored. Surprised you missed the tongue-in-cheek elements of my post :ph34r:

I'm not a big fan of the FTB theory in football anyway
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I said English players in the EPL, Carrick is the best while Scholes passing & vision has arguably been at its best over the past two seasons. But since your on it, based on your list only Fabregas, Alonso & probably Essein passing game ability are definately ahead of the Man Utd trio.
I see, a player who is generally renowned for having dubious passing ability?
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
This is how the muppets on Utd forums I've been on talk about Carrick. Kinda similar to Ferdinand. Man Utd are a better team with him than without him. Take from that what you will.
I take from that, that you are one of these "muppets" on the United forums.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Exactly the same argument why Emily 'no goal' Heskey was picked time after time. Rooney has gone from being a superstar in the making to Emily Heskey in an England shirt and you still think he should definitely play.
Well Heskey contributed more off the ball to be fair. He contributes a lot in balance - ie you've got power and pace that worry defenders so you can pretty much play anyone with him as long as they're a goalscorer.

If Rooney is one of your guys up front then you basically lack, well everything.

You don't have someone who's an aerial threat for crosses
You don't have someone who's a goalscorer
You don't have someone who can run behind defenses keeping them penned back

Rooney is a nightmare to accommodate at present. In recent times the only player who could probably balance an attack playing with Rooney is Shearer in his pomp.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
It’s a cliché but if you pass the ball backwards and only five yards then of course your passing is going to look 'good'. I like a lot of Man U players but in all honesty, Carrick's ****.
What does he offer? Looks pretty enough but he has no substance and no bite. At least with the likes of Hargreaves your got a guy with one serious tank who does like putting his foot in and he can pass the ball as well.
Bollocks.

It's not coincidence that since we've signed Carrick we've won the league twice (as well as a European Cup) and in the previous two seasons we won sod all. He's one of our three or four most vital players (excluding his poor start to last season).

He has a set job and performs it. Nicking this from a guy on another forum, but it's true: if you were to analyse every pass that Carrick makes, taking into account risk of it not making its target, what might happen if it didn't, potential rewards, and so on, you'd find that Carrick always plays the right pass. His job is to keep the ball, and he does it perfectly. In fact the things you criticise Carrick for could quite easily be applied to Scholes, don't see anyone criticising him. Between them they control the game.

Stats will also show you that the theory that he doesn't like putting his foot in is not the case.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Total passes and passing accuracy

Fabregas 2318 81.06%
Clichy 1975 83.19%
Flamini 1710 86.55%
Gerrard 1652 77.66%
Butt 1630 75.03%
Scholes 1592 89.70%
Carrick 1585 83.22%
Hleb 1552 82.73%
Ferdinand 1546 84.80%
Neville 1533 72.47%


Tackles attempted and tackle success rate

Reo-Coker 178 79.78%
Mascherano 165 75.76%
Malbranque 158 75.95%
Muamba 156 76.28%
Butt 151 71.52%
Clichy 150 80.67%
Warnock 130 76.92%
McCann 117 65.81%
Brown 116 81.03%
Brown 112 68.75%

Erm, where?

Tackles per game

Javier Mascherano 6.60
Nigel Reo-Coker 4.94
Wilson Palacios 4.94
Nicky Butt 4.31
Steed Malbranque 4.27

Again...

Passes per game

Francesc Fabregas 72.44
Paul Scholes 66.33
Frank Lampard 57.42
Mathieu Flamini 57.00
Javier Mascherano 53.72

A trend...

These are for last season. This season so far, he's not in the top 5 for tacklers or passers.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Surprised to see Reo-Coker so high up on the tackle list, in my eyes he has regressed as a defensive mid-field after the Under 21 WC last summer.

On Carrick, well its no surprise he not up there for its tackle its not his game. But its madness that he is getting so much stick ATM.
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Reo-Coker's been playing as a makeshift right back for Villa, would possibly explain him being top.
 

Agent TBY

International Captain
Total passes and passing accuracy
Ferdinand 1546 84.80%
Would love to see the percentage of forward passes he's made. Good defender or not, he must be one of the most boring and frustrating players to watch.

Oh, and Butt > Carrick, clearly. :laugh:
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Total passes and passing accuracy

Fabregas 2318 81.06%
Clichy 1975 83.19%
Flamini 1710 86.55%
Gerrard 1652 77.66%
Butt 1630 75.03%
Scholes 1592 89.70%
Carrick 1585 83.22%
Hleb 1552 82.73%
Ferdinand 1546 84.80%
Neville 1533 72.47%


Tackles attempted and tackle success rate

Reo-Coker 178 79.78%
Mascherano 165 75.76%
Malbranque 158 75.95%
Muamba 156 76.28%
Butt 151 71.52%
Clichy 150 80.67%
Warnock 130 76.92%
McCann 117 65.81%
Brown 116 81.03%
Brown 112 68.75%

Erm, where?

Tackles per game

Javier Mascherano 6.60
Nigel Reo-Coker 4.94
Wilson Palacios 4.94
Nicky Butt 4.31
Steed Malbranque 4.27

Again...

Passes per game

Francesc Fabregas 72.44
Paul Scholes 66.33
Frank Lampard 57.42
Mathieu Flamini 57.00
Javier Mascherano 53.72

A trend...

These are for last season. This season so far, he's not in the top 5 for tacklers or passers.
With tackling, I'm not trying to claim he's an out-and-out ballwinner, I'm saying that the idea that he can't put his foot in is a myth. It's obviously not a strength, but not a weakness either. There were some Opta stats posted on here, for last season or the season before (can't remember which) which showed this, he's, IIRC, the man with most tackles per game for United.

WRT passing... what there disproves any of what I said? Passes per game is not really relevant, and the pass completion stats show that when he gets the ball, he keeps it the vast majority of the time.

EDIT: Found some stats contradicting the passes per game anyway, according to Opta Carrick had the third highest passes per minute ratio last year, although really it is a pointless stat.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Would love to see the percentage of forward passes he's made. Good defender or not, he must be one of the most boring and frustrating players to watch.
Nah this is the Carrick of Tottenham you are talking about son, Carrick of United is by no means boring. Kindly lets end this foolish Carrick bashing..

Oh, and Butt > Carrick, clearly. :laugh:
Carrick better going forward & better much better passing game. But just solid defensively so Carrick > Butt for me.

Matteh said:
Only player not from a top 4 club to be in that list. Why'd Man Utd get rid of him?!
Along with Phil Nev, form started to dip during the years when Arsenal where a bit dominated. So was rightly dropped but United have replaced him so no worries. But no doubt has been doing well for Newcastle of late, wouldn't have been that bad of choice for these current qualifiers but i dunno maybe Fabio hasn't really noticed him.

Matteh said:
Reo-Coker's been playing as a makeshift right back for Villa, would possibly explain him being top.
.

Yea, probably has. Have you managed to get a look a Bolton's (birmingham city last season) Fabrice Maumba, really like the look of him.

Crouch/Heskey to replace him. Sure they're not better in theory on paper, but Crouch certainly has done better than Rooney in the last 2 years for England.
Much prefer Ashton these days over his lanky compatriot since at least he seems to have decent goal-scoring potential as a target man.


Christ you'd be hard pushed to called Rooney a striker these days anyway, drops back into midfield a stupid amount and is one of the main reasons he's just nowhere near as effective as he was. .
Versatily, when he was first signed as RVN's partner things where looking good. But ferguson has noticed this versatily & he has played alone up front, on the left (CL vs Roma) on the right (CL semi vs Barca). Fergie/Capello needs to give him a set role to sit in the hole & stop running around the place & being too involved in defense as he did in Russia last year & i'm 100% confident he'll be scoring for fun again he's wayyyy to talented not to.

Phases traditionally are short, 4 years is by no means short, quarter of a career.
Statistically in the last 4 years his 5 goals in that period looks short. But for me only since after the Ronaldo incident in 06 have i sensed a different Rooney at the international level. But he's not the only world class forward who has this problem Henry & Ibrahamovic from memory are others too..
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
Essien ruptures ACL

From the BBC.

Bummer for the big man. Cruciate injuries are a tough mend. Wouldn't be surprised if Appiah ends up at The Chavs too now either; Essien leaves a huge hole in their midfield, especially as they've punted Makelele to PSG.
 

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