Uppercut
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Personally I'll take a wicket keeper who can regularly fluke scores of 40 every time
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***Official*** South Africa in England
- Thread starter TT Boy
- Start date
stumpski
International Captain
Personally I can't get too concerned about who keeps wicket for England in limited-overs cricket. You could take out Prior and put in Davies or Wallace or Batty or Pothas and they'd all do a perfectly competent job. I reckon you may as well have the best batsman - or at least one who'll score quickly and not waste too much time (rules out Batty straightaway) and who's still the right side of 30. I wouldn't be happy about seeing him in the Test side though. Then I'd want the best keeper every time.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah fantastic numbers, that isnt by chance either.
He seems to have this mentality the just hardens when faced with adversity. To up his game against a team and nation that want him to fail above all others is amazing.
Possibly the strongest cricketer around mentally (Im obviously including the fact that if he had been even slightly different he would never negotiated all the roadblock put in front of him)
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
No, that would represent something too much like "evidence" to bother with.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
The thing is, he keeps to Jason Lewry all the time and doesn't seem to have any problem with taking chances off him.
Let's hope that when Sidebottom's back, and he has some bad luck (dropped catches, overthrows etc) he reacts a bit less petulantly against his own team-mates than he has in the past. I don't entirely blame him for having done so, but it doesn't help team spirit and for an experienced player it's immature and unhelpful.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Hmm, I actually enjoy it when I agree with both parties in a discussion.No, that would represent something too much like "evidence" to bother with.
Im a massive believer in domestic performances and players earning the right to selection.
However, I also agree with the fact that domestic performances start to become irrelevant after sustained failure at the higher level. That evidence is more conclusive.
Now the question is, has Prior played enough international cricket to outweigh the recent domestic production? This can can be applied to any players as well eg Shah. Have his failures at International level gone on long enough to outweight the domestic evidence?
Its a balancing act and both Scaly and Z have a point.
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zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I agree completely. He's a bit of a plonker (in a Tigger-like sort of way) but his mental strength is there for all to see.
Top_Cat
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I get the feeling that his play in tough situations is comorbid with his opportunity to gain glory in a win, though. He seems to get disheartened if his contribution, regardless of how good, isn't going to lead to a team win. He started off well in the 06/07 Ashes but tailed off as the rest of the team did. A bloke like Steve Waugh is single-minded enough to grind out tough contributions even in a losing cause but KP is unproven there. Not saying he can't, though.
An example was in his first Test, really; the side was in absolute disarray but with him being in the position to be England's saviour, he looked the only player in charge. Just get the feeling he loves the contest so much that when the game or series is no longer in doubt, he loses his motivation a little.
Was quiet in the middle Tests against SA too. His ton in the dead rubber was probably him gee-ing himself up for a big one in his first game as captain. Love the guy and it's probably the only chink in his armour, though.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Looks like Davies might be on his way, at last, to becoming just that best batsman.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
No-one can regularly fluke scores though - well, most people can't anyway. If someone has fluked scores - whether or not that's true of Prior in this case - then it's likely their scores will start to go down when the luck runs-out.Personally I'll take a wicket keeper who can regularly fluke scores of 40 every time
Precambrian
Banned
Really hope Steynjie picks a four for or a fifer today
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Hmm, in part it is TBH. There were at least a couple of dropped catches in the series in SA and of course 2 lbws turned-down in the opening game of this series.
Even if all catches had been taken and lbws given he'd probably still average 40 or 50 so it's not like he'd have been a failure, but that obscenely high average is due in part to good fortune.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
If so it'd be twice or more the most he's ever taken in a genuine ODI before.
Steyn and Morkel in a ODI team is a potential recipe for disaster and not something I like the look of at all. Whether this particular game sees said disaster happen we wait to see.
Uppercut
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No!
In cricketing terms he's well behind Graeme "balls-of-steel" Smith, Shiv "unnatural powers of concentration" Chanderpaul, Mohammed "scrapper" Yousuf with regards to mentality. If you're referring to overcoming adversity with regards to leaving cricket South Africa, he's not done anything a lot of other Kolpaks have done. Besides, he's been far more privileged than a lot of other cricketers- think what Makhaya Ntini the cattle farmer had to overcome to achieve his dream of international cricket.
But back to what matters, the cricket, for me he's someone who scores an awful lot of his runs in the first innings of matches when the pressure is off- he scores against excellent attacks, yes, but that is more testament to his ability than mentality. Indeed, he seems to have trouble motivating himself so strongly against teams that aren't South Africa or Australia. If I was picking a team of international cricketers to bat for two days to save a match, Pietersen would be nowhere near the side. He'd probably hang his bat out to a Jacques Kallis 75mpher outside off and get out for 15 off 4.
Not that I'm not a fan of the man, I think he's a little over-rated, yes, but he's extremely talented. All I'm saying is, mental toughness isn't his strength. If he was, as you suggest, as mentally tough as he is a talented cricketer, he'd surely be averaging somewhere in the 70s.
Uppercut
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Oooh, that's going against your grain for sure.
I wasn't being serious, but if I am to be, I'll say Prior probably shouldn't be in the ODI side- although I have no idea who will replace him. His batting is more than good enough to be in the test side (as a wicket-keeping all-rounder obviously- not a specialist batsman) based on what he has done in both FC cricket and test matches. I don't think there can be a fair case for excluding him on account of his batting, is what I'm saying. His wicket keeping one may crucify all day long.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Averages 45 in the second innings, not too shabby. 4 out of 14 centuries came in the second dig, but as people often say, the first innings is where you score centuries. And his average is still 42 against sides other than Australia & South Africa. Sure, most players who can average 50 against the Aussies should be averaging maybe 55 against others, but tbh give me a player who consistently averages 45-50 in a series and then ups his game against the best, because otherwise we'll have no chance.