***Official*** South Africa in England

[Uppercut]

Err there's probably only you on this entire forum who rates him. His batting in ODIs has always been awful. Him fluking a couple of 40s against pretty average bowling doesn't change this. His Test batting would be passible if his wicket-keeping was solid/good - but it isn't. Personally I think his Test average flatters him, I don't see him averaging much more than 30 over the long term.

Prior's 50-over domestic average this year: 53.
Prior's 40-over domestic average this year: 79.
Prior's 4-day domestic average this year: 56.

As much qualifying as these stats need (and they need plenty), for a wicket keeper they're incredible and it would be a huge surprise if he went from averaging 56 in FC cricket to averaging under 30 in test cricket- and anything over 30 is excellent for a wk. If England want to pick him, they needn't worry about the batting side of his game- it's his horrid glovework that's the real concern.

 

[aussie]

Stop posting like a girl, be firm about your about your point and lets get on with it, if not go back to the football thread and make yourself a clown over there.

Oh dear.

Well if his batting has ever been subject to whether he can score runs at the highest level please redirect me to the occasion?.

And I'd rather I you didn't refer to me as son, thanks.

Well do something about it fool..

Here is an idea "James aussie is calling me son please ban him"

Rose Tinted Critisism eh? Thats a load of balls as well.

Well if you can read Richard's mind please give me solid reason why Bell, Shah, Collingwood, Anderson & Harmison shouldn't be rated?

*facepalm*.

Well if you can't tap into the history of the ENG ODI side & find better middle to lower order than current ODI set-up currently has i think you should take your palm & push it up ur****.

 

[sledger]

There's no point trying to debate with you, because quite frankly, you aren't intelligent enough to comprehend any type of basic argument without resorting back to all these childish insults.

 

[aussie]

haha hypocrite, sorry deh was just trying to lower myself to your level son i apologise.

 

[Neil Pickup]

But school doesn't start again until next Thursday...

 

[zaremba]

Prior's 50-over domestic average this year: 53.
Prior's 40-over domestic average this year: 79.
Prior's 4-day domestic average this year: 56.

As much qualifying as these stats need (and they need plenty), for a wicket keeper they're incredible and it would be a huge surprise if he went from averaging 56 in FC cricket to averaging under 30 in test cricket- and anything over 30 is excellent for a wk.

You're right these stats do need qualifying - they were largely scored in a failing team in Division 1 and he was head and shoulders above his colleagues.

I also agree that his stats are outstanding and the idea that someone has put forward that he's "fluked a couple of 40s" is, with all due respect, childish and ignorant.

His keeping has by all accounts improved. He's never going to be the best keeper in the world but he's been unfairly and lazily castigated for 2 poor Test performances. Otherwise he's been competent and that, as Alec Stewart among many others has proved, is all you need to be in order to have a successful international career.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Despite everyone harping on about Prior's catch when he dived full length ect, I actually thought it was a poor peice of desicion making, it was a sitter for Shah, he probably should have left it. Thoughts?

 

[steds]

haha hypocrite, sorry deh was just trying to lower myself to your level son i apologise.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Despite everyone harping on about Prior's catch when he dived full length ect, I actually thought it was a poor peice of desicion making, it was a sitter for Shah, he probably should have left it. Thoughts?

Completely agree - but it's bloody hard to judge first slip/keeper catches, particularly if you don't know your slip, or have rarely played together.

However, what it does show to me is that he has made steps (get it?) with his footwork, as moving left was a major stand-out weakness during his last stint in the national colours.

 

[zaremba]

Despite everyone harping on about Prior's catch when he dived full length ect, I actually thought it was a poor peice of desicion making, it was a sitter for Shah, he probably should have left it. Thoughts?

Agree entirely. Although (thank f!) he did catch it, and it was a fine take.

Just goes to show, you can be praised lazily just as you can be criticised lazily. However if it helps to remove the hysterical over-reaction against him then I'm not unhappy about it.

 

[PhoenixFire]

True that. But I'd hazard a guess and say that 80/100 he'd probably drop those sorts of chances, where Shah would take them 95/100.

 

[Langeveldt]

I heard some mention of Ryan McLaren as being a possible future all-rounder for SA but he appears to have committed his future to England. English cricket had eroded the depth of SA cricket when you also consider the loss of the likes of Rudolph and KP. They've also been hit by the ICL players like Kemp, van der Wath and Hall being unavailable. I hear Wayne Parnell might be an all-rounder type for the future though.

Craig Kieswetter will keep wicket for England in the next few years and there is no doubt that Ryan McLaren will play at some stage.. Find it incredible how England will even be able to be called England.. When the Captain, Wicket keeper and best all rounder at one stage will be South African.. SA cricket only has itself to blame though, and its a miracle that we are as succesful as we are..

 

[Richard]

True that. But I'd hazard a guess and say that 80/100 he'd probably drop those sorts of chances, where Shah would take them 95/100.

Nah, Shah would not get remotely close to that sort of ratio. You've seen him field at slip haven't you?

Flintoff might though.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Don't seem to remember Shah dropping many, specialist slipper for Middlesex as well and quite right he should make himself into a slip fielder as he's useless in the outfield.

 

[Richard]

TBH I think some people believe that Moores doesn't just favour players who used to play for him at Sussex, but anybody who plays for Sussex (see Wright, Luke and the belief that if he played for, say, Northants, he wouldn't have got a look in)

Wellll... if anyone thinks that either they're loony (the likely - because not many people do that) or if they're right Moores is a disgrace and should never have come remotely close to the England coach's job. Anyone who picks or rates players based purely on what team they play for is automatically a very, very poor judge of the game indeed.

 

[Richard]

Don't seem to remember Shah dropping many, specialist slipper for Middlesex as well and quite right he should make himself into a slip fielder as he's useless in the outfield.

Well Shah dropped a sitter just a couple of games ago - Styris, as you may recall. I've seen him drop a few before now too. He's just a poor fielder, and you can't turn a poor fielder into a good slipper very often (though yes, occasionally it has happened).

 

[Richard]

Agreed, but he is batting out of position. He probably would make a decent # 3 if Trescothick where still around though.

But i'm willing to tolerate him until maybe Denly steps up next season or if Marcus by the grace of god gets some mental healing & takes an international u-turn.

Bell is indeed a decent stopgap, but I'd not be surprised if Denly never becomes a ODI-class opener - if he's going to be an international player I expect it to be in Tests. He's so far shown very little aptitude for the OD game. Trescothick will never play ODIs again and it won't help anyone to be hoping for him to. Truth is, Bell honestly is likely to be a long-term option. And while he might be vaguely better at three, I still have plenty of doubts there.

Ha, its funny how you are so quick to condemn players to the dust. The only thing about Prior that you should have reservations about is his glovework. His batting has always been good. For England's sake i think its better of backing him to come good since he obviously has the goods to a competent ODI opener.

We don't need him to be Gilly like, since the lower to middle to lower order is very strong the best the ENG side has probably had in history.

Prior's ODI batting has always been poor and remains so, even if he did get a near-meaningless 40-odd* the other day.

Yea because you don't like him i know.

Seriously though thought KP was a bit OTT when he said the other day that Shaw was wasted @#6. Will be interested to see how he bats @ 3 though.

I don't "not like" anyone, I just don't think Shah is very good at ODI batting and so far there's little evidence to the contrary.

Ha, i wonder what more he has to do..

Keep scoring.

Bopara obviously is a top-order batsman full-stop play him anywhere else he would be wasted.

Indeed, but there's little evidence he's currently a ODI-class top-order batsman either.

While the selectors seem to have the roles of Wright mixed up.

So long as he's anywhere near international cricket they have said role badly mixed-up.

How on Earth is it able to label Anderson and Harmison poor batsmen? They're nothing but nor ever will be.

Plus Mascarenhas, Swann, Sidebottom on the immediate sidelines.Pretty strong crop to me once they play to potential (except fro Bresnan don't know why the hell is around the side, why is Mascarenhas in the squad BTW?).

Sidebottom is a very poor batsman too.

From now on ENG ODI side has no reason to play garbage ODI & let it just ride, since once the correct XI is picked we should be challenging the best in world consistently.

That's been the case for a while. No more now than ever is the best available team being picked.

 

[Uppercut]

Completely agree - but it's bloody hard to judge first slip/keeper catches, particularly if you don't know your slip, or have rarely played together.

However, what it does show to me is that he has made steps (get it?) with his footwork, as moving left was a major stand-out weakness during his last stint in the national colours.

I thought his main weakness was moving right, because most of his drops seemed to be off Sidebottom-induced edges. Although really I thought it was a problem with being unsighted by the ball going across the batsman's body and reacting to the edges too late. In this England ODI side, it's impossible to see if his keeping to left-arm seamers has improved, so we'll see when (if) Sidebottom's back in the team.

 

[GIMH]

I see where people are coming from with regards to Prior taking the slips catch. Impressive, sure, but the main thing that highlighted Chris Read as not the keeper he was cracked up to be in 06 was the amount of catches that belonged to Trescothick that he ****ed up. Just because he caught it doesn't make it right in the same way as if someone crosses the road without looking doesn't get ran over it doesn't mean they should have done it (hyperbole FTW )

 

[Scaly piscine]

You're right these stats do need qualifying - they were largely scored in a failing team in Division 1 and he was head and shoulders above his colleagues.

I also agree that his stats are outstanding and the idea that someone has put forward that he's "fluked a couple of 40s" is, with all due respect, childish and ignorant.

His keeping has by all accounts improved. He's never going to be the best keeper in the world but he's been unfairly and lazily castigated for 2 poor Test performances. Otherwise he's been competent and that, as Alec Stewart among many others has proved, is all you need to be in order to have a successful international career.

I couldn't give a toss what he's done in County Cricket. For England he fluked a couple of 40s. He was dropped off an absolute sitter on 20odd in the first match before finally throwing his wicket away successfully. In the second match he was up against a completely dispirited bowling attack and still had numerous close escapes.