"HANSIE" Movie!

[pasag]

Pretty much disagree with everything there.

What's new?

 

[Sanz]

Haha..well I agree this time.

 

[Uppercut]

But that's how it is being perceived at least in some sections..Take a look at the following post :-


"....drawing two coloured players into the corruption in the process, was a huge betrayal to not only cricket as a whole but also to the process of reconciliation in his country...."

I don't think that classifies as double standards. If Warne were to convince two young Australian players to underperform (for half of the money he was offered, pocketing the difference) I would gladly tar him with the same brush as I do Cronje, and wholeheartedly support a life ban from cricket. Nevertheless, they are not the same thing.

Cronje had a great responsibility as national captain, far moreso than Warne has ever had. What he did with Gibbs and Williams was an insult to reconciliation, with consequences so far-reaching that Warne couldn't emulate if he tried. To accuse those who treat them differently of double standards is ridiculous. You may as well say a rapist and someone who slaps a girl's ass in a pub should be tarred with the same brush.

 

[Sanz]

. What he did with Gibbs and Williams was an insult to reconciliation,

That is absolute Rubbish. Gibbs and Williams were responsible for their acts. You are just making a huge assumption here and painting him as an evil purely based on your own imaginations than actual facts.

 

[Sanz]

I don't think that classifies as double standards. If Warne were to convince two young Australian players to underperform (for half of the money he was offered, pocketing the difference) I would gladly tar him with the same brush as I do Cronje, and wholeheartedly support a life ban from cricket. Nevertheless, they are not the same thing.

Cronje had a great responsibility as national captain, far moreso than Warne has ever had. What he did with Gibbs and Williams was an insult to reconciliation, with consequences so far-reaching that Warne couldn't emulate if he tried. To accuse those who treat them differently of double standards is ridiculous. You may as well say a rapist and someone who slaps a girl's ass in a pub should be tarred with the same brush.

Considering how many kids followed Warne and how he was treated as someone who revived the art of Spin Bowling, He had almost equal responsibility if not more. Please tell me who has bigger responsibility today, Tendulkar or Dhoni ? If Tendulkar had Done as a Player what Azhar did as Captain, Indian Cricket fans would have been devastated and Cricket would have been DEAD in India.

As for double standards, you, earlier in this thread, said "Just as Olympic athletes who used drugs destroyed the credibility of their sport, so Cronje has made us wonder about the integrity of the results of hundreds of matches since"

So are you telling me that Cricketers who use Drugs are different from Olympic Athletes who are Drug Cheats ? Let me guess the next line of Argument - "It was never proved that Warne took performance enhancing drugs and blah blah blah"

Talk of Double Standards..

 

[Uppercut]

Considering how many kids followed Warne and how he was treated as someone who revived the art of Spin Bowling, He had almost equal responsibility if not more. Please tell me who has bigger responsibility today, Tendulkar or Dhoni ? If Tendulkar had Done as a Player what Azhar did as Captain, Indian Cricket fans would have been devastated and Cricket would have been DEAD in India.

As for double standards, you, earlier in this thread, said "Just as Olympic athletes who used drugs destroyed the credibility of their sport, so Cronje has made us wonder about the integrity of the results of hundreds of matches since"

So are you telling me that Cricketers who use Drugs are different from Olympic Athletes who are Drug Cheats ? Let me guess the next line of Argument - "It was never proved that Warne took performance enhancing drugs and blah blah blah"

Talk of Double Standards..

Well Warne's conviction did have an element of doubt. Just as Edgar Davids and half of the Dutch football team didn't deserve a life ban for testing positive for nandrolone when there was clearly something fishy going on. Warne deserved to be punished, perhaps more harshly than he was, but he isn't Dwaine Chambers, who IMO should never have been allowed to compete in athletics ever again. They're different offences, and so should be dealt with in different ways.

 

[Uppercut]

That is absolute Rubbish. Gibbs and Williams were responsible for their acts. You are just making a huge assumption here and painting him as an evil purely based on your own imaginations than actual facts.

I don't believe that, if it weren't for Cronje's immense influence, either of those players would have become implicated in match-fixing. I don't mean to absolve either Gibbs or Williams of responsibility at all, but what they did is absolutely not equal to what Cronje did. Therefore, again, they shouldn't be treated the same. It's pragmatism, not double standards.

 

[Uppercut]

Considering how many kids followed Warne and how he was treated as someone who revived the art of Spin Bowling, He had almost equal responsibility if not more. Please tell me who has bigger responsibility today, Tendulkar or Dhoni ? If Tendulkar had Done as a Player what Azhar did as Captain, Indian Cricket fans would have been devastated and Cricket would have been DEAD in India.

But what Cronje did transcended the area of cricket, it had political and social consequences too that Warne (or Tendulkar) wouldn't have caused. Note, though, that I'd never forgive either of them if they had done what Cronje had done.

 

[silentstriker]

I just came in here to say that the trailer is the worst of all time.

http://www.hansiemovie.com/videos/HansieTeaserLAN.mov

What the hell?


In any case, I'll never forgive Hansie, or Azhar or anyone else who did this. This is the single worst thing you can do in any sport. He doesn't deserve forgiveness, let alone respect or admiration.

 

[Sanz]

Warne was smart enough to put that doubt forth and there were fans who were just waiting to latch up those excuses.

We victimize Ben Johnson for testing positive during the 1988 Olympics, but what about the Likes of Carl Lewis who were also caught for the same thing but their country covered up the whole issue. Yet Carl Lewis is a Hero and Ben Johnson is a Villain as far Olympics are concerned. Warne's case is very similar to Lewis' where his board covered up all his mistakes.

Some Quality Double Standards there.

On Carl Lewis :-

This idol has feet of clay, after all

http://www.hinduonnet.com/tss/tss2618/stories/20030503002206000.htm

I grew up admiring Lewis's Olympic feats esp what he did in 1984, he is still one of my favorite olympians but what he did was worse than Ben Johnson's act in Seoul Olympic.

 

[Uppercut]

So are you telling me that Cricketers who use Drugs are different from Olympic Athletes who are Drug Cheats ? Let me guess the next line of Argument - "It was never proved that Warne took performance enhancing drugs and blah blah blah"

Talk of Double Standards..

Of course cricketers who use drugs are different from Olympic athletes who are drugs cheats. For a start they have different careers.

Not all drugs are the same, either. Nor is every case worthy of the same treatment, sometimes, as in my aforementioned example with the Dutch football team, there's clearly something fishy going on that probably has very little to do with the players. In Warne's case, it's hard to believe that the benefits to a leg-spinner of a diuretic were worth the trouble of risking a hefty fine and ban, so it obviously isn't the same as a 100m sprinter pumping testosterone.

 

[Sanz]

But what Cronje did transcended the area of cricket, it had political and social consequences too that Warne (or Tendulkar) wouldn't have caused. Note, though, that I'd never forgive either of them if they had done what Cronje had done.

What political and social consequences we are talking about here ?

 

[Sanz]

Of course cricketers who use drugs are different from Olympic athletes who are drugs cheats. For a start they have different careers.

I am sorry but I do not agree with the above and I dont believe in making any such distinction as far as use of performance enhancing drugs are concerned.

 

[Uppercut]

I am sorry but I do not agree with the above and I dont believe in making any such distinction as far as use of performance enhancing drugs are concerned.

That's ridiculous. You can't treat every misdemeanour in the same way. Should stealing a loaf of bread from a supermarket receive the same punishment as cleaning out a pensioner's house?

 

[silentstriker]

I am sorry but I do not agree with the above and I dont believe in making any such distinction as far as use of performance enhancing drugs are concerned.

Well, comparing drug cheats and match fixers are like comparing people who drive over the speed limit with people who shoot other people in the head.

 

[Sanz]

Well, comparing drug cheats and match fixers are like comparing people who drive over the speed limit with people who shoot other people in the head.

Well, I am not the one who made that comparison though. UC said the following :-

"Just as Olympic athletes who used drugs destroyed the credibility of their sport, so Cronje has made us wonder about the integrity of the results of hundreds of matches since"

Besides I was just responding to UC's different stance over drug usage by Olympic Athletes and Cricketers. He views them differently and I dont.

 

[Uppercut]

Well, I am not the one who made that comparison though. UC said the following :-

"Just as Olympic athletes who used drugs destroyed the credibility of their sport, so Cronje has made us wonder about the integrity of the results of hundreds of matches since"

Besides I was just responding to UC's different stance over drug usage by Olympic Athletes and Cricketers. He views them differently and I dont.

No I'm happy with that analogy. It's not really comparing drugs cheats to match fixers as such, just showing their respective effects on the sport in which they occur. Generally I wouldn't dream of classing Warne's misdemeanours anywhere near those of Cronje.

 

[Indipper]

Well, comparing drug cheats and match fixers are like comparing people who drive over the speed limit with people who shoot other people in the head.

How so? Both are just trying to get ahead through unorthodox means at the expense of others.

 

[Sanz]

Generally I wouldn't dream of classing Warne's misdemeanours anywhere near those of Cronje.

But you did classify Olympic Drug Cheats along the lines of Cronje's deeds. Didn't you ?

 

[silentstriker]

How so? Both are just trying to get ahead through unorthodox means at the expense of others.

No. Drug cheats try to get ahead to try to help themselves, their country and their team win.

Match fixers fixate to lose, which is against the essence of all sport.