***Official*** South Africa in England

[Zinzan]

He's not, there's at least 2 better (1 of whom is ineligable for international cricket) but he's nowhere near as bad as you made-out earlier. He's barely dropped a catch in Test cricket and is an infinitely better wicketkeeper than Prior.

All I said was that he wasn't as sharp behind the stumps as McCullum & Boucher and added I'd be surprised if he was the best keeper in the country. Do you disagree re McCullum & Boucher?

 

[Richard]

You used the term "so sluggish" rather than "relatively sluggish". That naturally makes the comment seem highly disparaging and I'm surprised if you'd think otherwise.

Of course he's not as good with the gloves as Boucher or McCullum but the difference isn't Earth-shattering.

 

[Zinzan]

You used the term "so sluggish" rather than "relatively sluggish". That naturally makes the comment seem highly disparaging and I'm surprised if you'd think otherwise.

Of course he's not as good with the gloves as Boucher or McCullum but the difference isn't Earth-shattering.

Yes "so sluggish" compared to Mac & Bouch, and I stick to that, meaning I find the difference in agility to be noticeable. Not necessarily his catching, more the numerous misses down the leg-side from leg-byes, many that I believe McCullum & top keepers would have got across to.

 

[Richard]

A few leg-byes is barely noticeable. It really doesn't matter much. The bowlers for bowling on the pads deserve far more criticism.

 

[Zinzan]

A few leg-byes is barely noticeable. It really doesn't matter much. The bowlers for bowling on the pads deserve far more criticism.

Noticeable to me and there were more than just a few if you watched the 3rd test. But if you don't there much difference between those keepers in question.....thats your opinion, but I do

 

[Goughy]

Noticeable to me and there were more than just a few if you watched the 3rd test.

Whos fault leg byes are can be debated, but IIRC the 3rd Test saw a Test record for leg byes in an innings

 

[Zinzan]

Whos fault leg byes are can be debated, but IIRC the 3rd Test saw a Test record for leg byes in an innings

Correct and a fair few of them would have been stopped by an agile keeper whether it was the bowlers fault or not

 

[Manee]

I didn't see much of the Test, but I'd imagine that a lot of the leg byes would have been caused by Anderson's inswinger or Flintoff's attempted yorker.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I seem to remember there were a lot where Ambrose got a glove to them but they went for 4 leg byes anyway. I guess if there are better keepers out there they would have probably stopped these.

 

[Goughy]

I must admit, I was disappointed in Ambrose not getting to a lot of balls I thought I should.

However, sweet pieces of keeping like the legside catch of Prince off Monty that wasnt given almost made up for it.

I did think he was a little lax though

 

[Uppercut]

If Prior is supposedly good enough to keep in ODIs then why isnt he in the test side? We know that he has the ability to make at least a decent bat in tests, dont think he'll average 40 odd with his footwork, but surely if his keeping is good enough he should be in the test side as well? Ambrose's keeping is shocking IMO, especially for someone whos been picked as a wicket-keeper batsman and not the other way around.

The thinking is, good wicket keeping = extra wickets, a good batsman = extra runs. Extra runs are worth more proportionally than wickets in ODIs compared to tests.

I wouldn't play either of them. Mustard's a better option than both of them, and he surely isn't the best in the country either.

 

[GIMH]

Prior has been a decent Test bat but poor in ODIs, yet another skewed selection tbh.

 

[Richard]

The thinking is, good wicket keeping = extra wickets, a good batsman = extra runs. Extra runs are worth more proportionally than wickets in ODIs compared to tests.

I wouldn't play either of them. Mustard's a better option than both of them, and he surely isn't the best in the country either.

I'm really not sure Mustard's any better than either of them TBH. Certainly not than Ambrose. Mustard really is woeful.

 

[Woodster]

I continue to be staggered by the response to Bopara's elevation back into the England Test team. I can understand Owais Shah fans being a little peeved as Bopara has leapfrogged above him despite the sheer weight of runs Shah has scored in recent seasons, but perhaps they think Bopara is more likely to succeed at Test level than Shah is and is in better form this year, not that form this season dictates wholly who should be selected for Test cricket.

Bopara has a style that makes batting look easy, and despite his sufferings in Sri Lanka, I believe has the abililty to succeed at the highest level. He is still only 23, yet people are writing him off because of his failings in his THREE Tests in Sri Lanka, which is quite simply ridiculous.

His form in all formats of the game this season have been of the highest standard, and with it he brings a hustling style of medium pace.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm really not sure Mustard's any better than either of them TBH. Certainly not than Ambrose. Mustard really is woeful.

Ambrose's ODI record could not possible be any worse. At least Mustard can slog a bit.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Ambrose's ODI record could not possible be any worse. At least Mustard can slog a bit.

That's just the problem. Ambrose is a more proper batsman than Mustard, but he's being asked to slog.

 

[Zinzan]

I seem to remember there were a lot where Ambrose got a glove to them but they went for 4 leg byes anyway. I guess if there are better keepers out there they would have probably stopped these.

Correct, and IIRC this happened on a few occasions

 

[Smith108]

Ambrose's ODI record could not possible be any worse. At least Mustard can slog a bit.

True, he's been likened to Adam Gilchrist before. Don't know how that happened.

 

[TT Boy]

That's just the problem. Ambrose is a more proper batsman than Mustard, but he's being asked to slog.

Ambrose for the most part in his short ODI career wasn’t required to come in and slog but merely rebuild and consolidate the innings (which he failed to do miserably) - If he was asked to come in and just slog away from overs 40 onwards then fine but he usually come in with amble time left in the game.

 

[gio]

I continue to be staggered by the response to Bopara's elevation back into the England Test team. I can understand Owais Shah fans being a little peeved as Bopara has leapfrogged above him despite the sheer weight of runs Shah has scored in recent seasons, but perhaps they think Bopara is more likely to succeed at Test level than Shah is and is in better form this year, not that form this season dictates wholly who should be selected for Test cricket.

Bopara has a style that makes batting look easy, and despite his sufferings in Sri Lanka, I believe has the abililty to succeed at the highest level. He is still only 23, yet people are writing him off because of his failings in his THREE Tests in Sri Lanka, which is quite simply ridiculous.

His form in all formats of the game this season have been of the highest standard, and with it he brings a hustling style of medium pace.

I'd agree with that. Bopara has scored a hell of a lot of runs this season and deserves another chance. Whilst I would have preferred to see Shah in there, I do not begrudge the selection as Bopara could turn into a very good batsman. Now's the correct time to try him, SL was too early.

EDIT: not a big fan of batsman who bowl a bit though, hopefully that wasn't used when debating Shah v Bopara