Chanderpaul is Number 1

[Top_Cat]

Been on brilliant form lately hasn't he......Would say he's definitely the best active batsman career wise other than Tendulkar but as for who's been best the last year, Chanderpaul hands down.

Little wrong with Punter's form in Tests in the past year or so. He's down on numbers but still averaging in the 50's. Chanders' form has, obviously, been far better but, as Goughy and I alluded to, getting him out might not be foremost in opposition teams' plans and I suspect he's been the beneficiary of this. That around half of his knocks this year have been red-inked supports it a bit more. Just my opinion, though.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, from what I've seen he's in great touch. I'm just saying it's not as far and above other batsmen as the numbers would suggest.

 

[Dissector]

On balance I think it's harder playing for a weak team. For one thing there is nothing like wickets to keep bowlers' confidence high and fatigue low. Would the quality of bowling to Chanderpaul improve if he had more top batsmen alongside him who were grinding the other team down with big partnerships. I seriously doubt it. Chanderpaul also faces the new ball more than he would if there were better batsmen above him.

Secondly because WI bowlers often concede big totals it makes it tougher for their batsmen; their opponents can attack more with more aggressive fields.

 

[Top_Cat]

On balance I think it's harder playing for a weak team. For one thing there is nothing like wickets to keep bowlers' confidence high and fatigue low. Would the quality of bowling to Chanderpaul improve if he had more top batsmen alongside him who were grinding the other team down with big partnerships. I seriously doubt it. Chanderpaul also faces the new ball more than he would if there were better batsmen above him.

Well, he has come a long way but Chanders has been rated highly for many years now and with Lara in the line-up and just better teams in general, he's only really come good with the WI in a real trough. So surely it cuts both ways; attacking fields also provide more scoring opportunities, for example (although the Aussies were very defensive in their field placings, which is what I'm talking about in terms of playing for the guy at the other end). Being your team's gun puts the pressure on to score but can free your mind if they're sinking without a trace anyway (nothing to lose and all that).

Anyway, I'm not trying to devalue the achievement as much as put it in context. He's been the best-performed batsman for the past year, this is true so I'll just say it hasn't changed my perception of him as a very, very good player but not in the Ponting/Sanga/Sachin/Kallis echelon. Same with Mohammed Yousuf, again, in my view.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I love Chanders, strikes one as the kind of chap it'd be good to have in the trenches with you. His form in the Windies 2006 tour up here was magnificent, we really struggled to get him out at all. Clearly not a techique to make the purists swoon, but undeniably effective.

I know there's a huge gap between English domestic 2020s & Pro40s, but his ascension to the zenith has come at a time when he's not in absolutely prime nick. His innings in the 2020 semi arguably cost Durham any chance of victory. It's true he's a better test player, but he's decidely useful in the shorter format too, I remember his 4 & 6 off the last two balls to see the Windies home versus the Lankans as one of the premier acts of last-over escapology. Just hope his mojo is back the next time the Windies play a test.

 

[sanga1337]

Awesome news. He thoroughly deserves it. With the record he's had over the past couple of years, I can't see how he can't be considered number one at the moment.

 

[tooextracool]

As much as I appreciate the fact that Chanderpaul can bat, I fail to see how a guy that has played in a side that has won 3 meaningful Tests in 5 years can be #1.

He (it) isnt that important. We have seen that teams dont have to focus on him and can let him bat, as he isn't a threat to take the game away, and focus on the other end.

Certainly a good batsman but I wouldn't pick him as #1 in the World.

I accept that I may be being a little harsh, but Ive always seen him as the 'Master of making things look respectable' rather than the 'Master of making things happen'

Which is all fair and good, except thats not really been the case over the last year or so. WI may have won 3 meaningful tests over the last 5 years, but 2 of them came in the past year. The last 3 series have all been closer than expected and WI have genuinely been competitive. If teams have gone in with the idea that they can just let Chanderpaul bat and get everyone else out, well then thats probably why SA lost a test against them at home, why SL couldnt wrap up a series against them and why Australia came pretty darn close to losing a game against WI as well.

 

[zaremba]

Sorry Goughy but I struggle to understand your theory that "his team is poor therefore he isn't be a great player" - he could hardly have done more to carry his team in recent years. You don't get to be world number 1 by accident and he is a very high class player.

Anyway let's just hope they don't arrange an awards ceremony for him: Chanderpaul's lowest moment

 

[Uppercut]

The theory that his amount of not-outs flatters him doesn't hold water either. So often he gets himself in and can't make a big score because the rest of the lineup collapses. When he's been supported by another batsman this year, Sarwan, he's won a game and saved a game. And this against test cricket's undisputed greatest spinner and most probably the world's greatest paceman.

Even more convincing for me was his performance in England last summer. It's been said numerous times (often on this board) that good swing bowling is almost impossible to counter, but he manages it regularly by playing so very late. He also staved off Monty at an extremely awkward 5th-day OT pitch in that tour. This while his team was collapsing all around him.

If, as has been suggested, he's so good that attacks simply give up on trying to get him out and go for the other end, surely that's a credit to him? He's been going through a purple patch for sure, but when that peak in form lasts two years of averaging over 100, it's time to say he's currently the best batsman in the world.

 

[zaremba]

The theory that his amount of not-outs flatters him doesn't hold water either.

No the whole "not outs flatter the average" theory is in my view completely wide of the mark, not only for Chanders (for the reason you've given) but also for any batsman.

The hardest part of batting is when you're first at the crease and you've yet to get your eye in. Batsman A who scores 30 and 30 not out has had to successfully negotiate that tricky period twice. Batsman B who scores 60 (out) has only had to do so once. Both average 60. Why, then, say that batsman A has been "flattered" by the fact that he had a not out score?

 

[Goughy]

Sorry Goughy but I struggle to understand your theory that "his team is poor therefore he isn't be a great player" - he could hardly have done more to carry his team in recent years. You don't get to be world number 1 by accident and he is a very high class player.

Anyway let's just hope they don't arrange an awards ceremony for him: Chanderpaul's lowest moment

Lets take this game as an example, especially as it was considered by many to be a great knock at the time.

Chanderpaul was content to just bat and let the game float to its eventual conclusion ie England win.

He needed to change up a gear and make a concerted push to go after the target once the lower order was in. He didnt.

He needed to gradually get more aggressive as the wickets fell in order to challenge for a potentially valuable and glorious victory.

He didnt do that and a statistically impressive innings does nothing but bother me. If he was out for 75 whilst trying to win the game then that would have been a better innings as at least he was making an effort.

This innings was frustrating in its lack of ambition.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, he does tend to not accelarate with the tail sometimes. That said, WI tail-enders play far too many shots, so Shiv isn't entirely to blame.

 

[Top_Cat]

If, as has been suggested, he's so good that attacks simply give up on trying to get him out and go for the other end, surely that's a credit to him?

That's not exactly what I said. Was just saying that when the batsmen at the other end are far more likely to get out and one bloke is just dead-batting you, one tactic is to keep the dead-bat quiet and concentrate on getting the others out around him, especially since they're going to feel the pressure to score because Mr Dead-bat isn't. They're obviously going to give more chances so you'd obviously bowl to that. Not saying he's too good to get out.

He's been going through a purple patch for sure, but when that peak in form lasts two years of averaging over 100, it's time to say he's currently the best batsman in the world.

Best-performed, obviously. Best batsman? Not for me. Goughy's example is a good one too.

 

[Fasthand Slog]

Well deserved for the most consistant batsman for the past 2 years. He has filled Lara's shoes in his own way and saved the West Indies from many situations. Well done Shiv take a bow!

 

[roseboy64]

Lets take this game as an example, especially as it was considered by many to be a great knock at the time.

Chanderpaul was content to just bat and let the game float to its eventual conclusion ie England win.

He needed to change up a gear and make a concerted push to go after the target once the lower order was in. He didnt.

He needed to gradually get more aggressive as the wickets fell in order to challenge for a potentially valuable and glorious victory.

He didnt do that and a statistically impressive innings does nothing but bother me. If he was out for 75 whilst trying to win the game then that would have been a better innings as at least he was making an effort.

This innings was frustrating in its lack of ambition.

He bats with the tail the same way regardless of the game. So that's a pretty much null argument. Having watched him for quite a while I'd say him playing that way is the norm.

 

[Goughy]

He bats with the tail the same way regardless of the game. So that's a pretty much null argument. Having watched him for quite a while I'd say him playing that way is the norm.

Which has been one of my points. Cricket isnt played in a bubble.

The best need to be able to adapt and play to situations.

As I said in my original post, I dont think that a player that seldom does that can really be the best in the World.

So much of cricket is situational rather than putting up big numbers. The best are those that can do both.

 

[sanga1337]

Which has been one of my points. Cricket isnt played in a bubble.

The best need to be able to adapt and play to situations.

As I said in my original post, I dont think that a player that seldom does that can really be the best in the World.

So much of cricket is situational rather than putting up big numbers. The best are those that can do both.

Not sure about tests, but in the one day game Chanderpaul is actually quite capable of scoring quickly.

 

[Jakester1288]

So if Sangakkara make like a double ton in the game on currently and didn't need to bat in the second innnings, would he rise above Chanderpaul again because Chanderpaul is not playing?

 

[Richard]

Not sure about tests, but in the one day game Chanderpaul is actually quite capable of scoring quickly.

Chanderpaul (in both forms of the game) can score both quicker than most batsmen are capable of and slower than most are capable of. However, it doesn't often strike me as particularly conscious. It's just a question of which mood takes him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Chanderpaul (in both forms of the game) can score both quicker than most batsmen are capable of and slower than most are capable of. However, it doesn't often strike me as particularly conscious. It's just a question of which mood takes him.

In ODI cricket he definitely knows how to shift gears. In Tests, probably because West Indies has tended to be so much more dire in Tests over the recent years, he's a lot more cautious in general.

Regarding the "his team is poor so he can't be the best" argument, it's a poor one. That's as poor as the time when Lara was being called the biggest loser in world cricket, because he was involved in the most Test losses of any player. The quality of his teammates should not detract from his individual brilliances. The fact is that both Lara and Chanderpaul have given blood, sweat and tears to West Indies cricket, and unlike ordinary players who have done the same, they've scored shedloads whilst doing so.

Anyone who has seen West Indies play over the past year and a half can tell that Chanderpaul is the key wicket. It's not a case of letting him bat and getting others out, because he's good enough that doing that can cost you a game or come pretty damn close to costing you it. Bowlers know that if they get him out, it's game over. And they know that if they don't get him out, West Indies always have a chance. Just ask Chaminda Vaas or any Australian bowler. The reason bowlers can't get Chanderpaul out is not for relative lack of effort, it's because he is that good. And he's been excellent in both forms of the game for longer than just the last year and a half.

At the moment you'd think he is more likely to outscore Ponting, particularly if he had the opportunities that Ponting does with the batting lineup he is in. Therefore at the moment he is the best batsman in the world. It can't just be passed off as "great form". He's been excellent for far too long for it to be just form.

 

[aussie]

At the moment you'd think he is more likely to outscore Ponting, particularly if he had the opportunities that Ponting does with the batting lineup he is in. Therefore at the moment he is the best batsman in the world. It can't just be passed off as "great form". He's been excellent for far too long for it to be just form.

How fair back are you judging it from though. Chanderpaul obvious transformed from the batsmen who would make a lot of 50s & get out from lets say IND 02 to SRI 05.

Captaincy affected his batting during tours to AUS & NZ, then after Lara took it back he gradually got himself back in order & from. Then from ENG 07 to now he has been phenomenol but for me its just form & can't be enough to make him the best batsman in the world ahead of Ponting who has been unstoppable since about 7 years now since he promoted to number # 3 @ TB 01.