Championless Trophy? - stop the bs and go

[honestbharani]

I remember being in India at the time of the Jaipur bombings and watching news programs covering the situation they had a former government minister on there who said that after the blasts the government had major plans to set up a state of the art intelligence network dedicated solely to the terror issue in the country and in order to suss out any major threats and activities beforehand. Problem is once the hysteria died down a couple of months later they decided to cancel the plans as there were "more important" issues at hand for them.

In short, this is such a believable threat for people because there is next to no confidence in the government to do anything about it and any business/sporting teams who opt to pull out of going to India do have my sympathies.

The truth abt terrorism is that there is no real way to stop it. That is why it is such a favourite for anyone with outlandish views and wanting to impose them on others.. When one happens, people fear that another million will happen again and all it takes is just one word from one lazy person..


The reality is risk from terrorism exists everywhere.. Obviously, I can understand when individual players' show their concern but for organisations like CA to make it some kind of a policy of not touring certain countries when you are promised Z-grade security.. It is just not on.... Just take the players who are willing to go. I know there is a stigma about Pakistan that doesn't exist about India in countries like Australia, New Zealand and England but at least if they send their team once (I mean Australia here), and if the tour goes without incidents, it will go a long way in clearing those fears and concerns in a number of the players.

 

[duffer]

The truth abt terrorism is that there is no real way to stop it. That is why it is such a favourite for anyone with outlandish views and wanting to impose them on others.. When one happens, people fear that another million will happen again and all it takes is just one word from one lazy person..

It's all true but my issue is with the fact that India's government seems to have given up on trying to do anything about it.

The second paragraph I agree entirely with.

 

[WhatisRight]

The truth abt terrorism is that there is no real way to stop it. That is why it is such a favourite for anyone with outlandish views and wanting to impose them on others.. When one happens, people fear that another million will happen again and all it takes is just one word from one lazy person.

Yeah but after 9/11 they could have controlled it to alot of extent, but the way the bush administration handled the whole situation is a disgrace. Hes just made this world a very scary place. The problem is not the muslims as most people think, the problem is his policies that has led to this state of the world. Had bush ordered to attack another country which followed another religion, the result would have been the same. Criminals are everywhere but that doesnt mean you bomb the whole country. Tell me how a person who got his children(s) or wife or parents or spouse bombed would wana take revenge? How can they have any peace in his mind? And people talk about islam being a extreme religion. And how does bush get away with all the killings hes done?

 

[GIMH]

Absolutely despise the UK invaded Iraq so London gets bombed argument.

Be accountable for your own actions. SS once called that view of mine intellectually naive, yet I wholeheartedly disagree. You can look at causes, and say thing Y wouldn't have happened but for thing X, that may well be true but then again thing Z might well have happened anyway, we will never know.

Criticise the west for the invasion of Iraq, if you believe the invasion was wrong.

But justify terrorism and basically live in denial? Hate that. Terrorism is never justified. Two wrongs and all that jazz.

 

[godofcricket]

Be accountable for your own actions. SS once called that view of mine intellectually naive, yet I wholeheartedly disagree. You can look at causes, and say thing Y wouldn't have happened but for thing X, that may well be true but then again thing Z might well have happened anyway, we will never know.

Criticise the west for the invasion of Iraq, if you believe the invasion was wrong.

But justify terrorism and basically live in denial? Hate that. Terrorism is never justified. Two wrongs and all that jazz.

I agree with what WhatisRight has said on this. If you followed the reasoning from the start of the wars, I am 100% against the war in Iraq and how the handled afghanistan. The reason they went into iraq was because bush had "Proof" that saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) and those were a serious threat to the world peace, then after a certain period when they couldnt find these WMD they started to say they had "capabilities" to create WMD. Then more time, they changed the reasoning to Saddam is a dictator and a war criminal and we have to get rid of him. Now how in the world can you justify the whole process of this war? They have killed millions of people and they are killing around a 100 everyday and its become such a routine that even BBC or CNN cant bother to put it up on the headlines.

I will tell you something and I know this becuase i am from that part of the world, i have been to Waziristan and you will be amazed how much hatred people have developed for americans and the western world and its really scary, they are constantly talking about killing every american they see. Now obviously this is all due to the bush policies and now every american is seen the same way. I met around 10 families there and some of them had lost their children (as little as 7 months) and some lost their wives and spouse and they keep saying they dont wana live this sort of life anymore and that they had no reason to live the way they were doing in the past and so they send their children to these training camps where they are taught about guns and bombing, i hope you get some sort of idea that this is pakistan and what would it be like with families in iraq, afghanistan. Obviously the situation in pakistan is more to do what musharraf ordered but they are very much aware bush backed him for the operation.

 

[GIMH]

Look, I'm not getting into a row about Iraq here. FFS I am saying you can't justify terrorism by saying "look at what the Americans did to Iraq" it's the worst ****ing excuse there is, dead set.

Honestly I don't have the energy to get suckered into a debate here. Why did I ever renounce my "I don't discuss anything political online" stance

 

[Sanz]

Look, I'm not getting into a row about Iraq here. FFS I am saying you can't justify terrorism by saying "look at what the Americans did to Iraq" it's the worst ****ing excuse there is, dead set.

Honestly I don't have the energy to get suckered into a debate here. Why did I ever renounce my "I don't discuss anything political online" stance

I complete agree with every word you said.

 

[Sanz]

Yeah but after 9/11 they could have controlled it to alot of extent, but the way the bush administration handled the whole situation is a disgrace. Hes just made this world a very scary place. The problem is not the muslims as most people think, the problem is his policies that has led to this state of the world. Had bush ordered to attack another country which followed another religion, the result would have been the same. Criminals are everywhere but that doesnt mean you bomb the whole country. Tell me how a person who got his children(s) or wife or parents or spouse bombed would wana take revenge? How can they have any peace in his mind? And people talk about islam being a extreme religion. And how does bush get away with all the killings hes done?

I agree with what WhatisRight has said on this. If you followed the reasoning from the start of the wars, I am 100% against the war in Iraq and how the handled afghanistan. The reason they went into iraq was because bush had "Proof" that saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) and those were a serious threat to the world peace, then after a certain period when they couldnt find these WMD they started to say they had "capabilities" to create WMD. Then more time, they changed the reasoning to Saddam is a dictator and a war criminal and we have to get rid of him. Now how in the world can you justify the whole process of this war? They have killed millions of people and they are killing around a 100 everyday and its become such a routine that even BBC or CNN cant bother to put it up on the headlines..

Please do not forget to blame Pan-Islamism also.

 

[godofcricket]

Look, I'm not getting into a row about Iraq here. FFS I am saying you can't justify terrorism by saying "look at what the Americans did to Iraq" it's the worst ****ing excuse there is, dead set.

I never said thats the only reason for terrorism in this world but one of the biggest reasons. My main point with the post was the fact that the reasons for war itself was based on lies.

Honestly I don't have the energy to get suckered into a debate here. Why did I ever renounce my "I don't discuss anything political online" stance

Fair enough..

 

[Richard]

I agree with what WhatisRight has said on this. If you followed the reasoning from the start of the wars, I am 100% against the war in Iraq and how the handled afghanistan. The reason they went into iraq was because bush had "Proof" that saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) and those were a serious threat to the world peace, then after a certain period when they couldnt find these WMD they started to say they had "capabilities" to create WMD. Then more time, they changed the reasoning to Saddam is a dictator and a war criminal and we have to get rid of him. Now how in the world can you justify the whole process of this war? They have killed millions of people and they are killing around a 100 everyday and its become such a routine that even BBC or CNN cant bother to put it up on the headlines.

I will tell you something and I know this becuase i am from that part of the world, i have been to Waziristan and you will be amazed how much hatred people have developed for americans and the western world and its really scary, they are constantly talking about killing every american they see. Now obviously this is all due to the bush policies and now every american is seen the same way. I met around 10 families there and some of them had lost their children (as little as 7 months) and some lost their wives and spouse and they keep saying they dont wana live this sort of life anymore and that they had no reason to live the way they were doing in the past and so they send their children to these training camps where they are taught about guns and bombing, i hope you get some sort of idea that this is pakistan and what would it be like with families in iraq, afghanistan. Obviously the situation in pakistan is more to do what musharraf ordered but they are very much aware bush backed him for the operation.

There's a difference between posts like this and "justifying terrorism" IMO. Hatred of America and Western countries in general, wrong-headed, irrational and over-hasty though it may be, has to be understood and realised to be there, and it has to be accepted that some of the problems certain people have got into has been caused by those acting on their behalf.

Terrorism can never be justified, but equally people could be far more careful about the monsters they risk creating. And people could be more careful about who they elect into power to create these monsters.

 

[godofcricket]

Please do not forget to blame Pan-Islamism also.

i will come back to this issue tommarrow...

 

[godofcricket]

Please do not forget to blame Pan-Islamism also.

The pan-Islamic movement can also be blamed and so to other political groups which have been created (there are various groups now after the war) and will continue as long as the situation remains. The pan-islamic movement is a big threat and Bush should have concentrated on them and other issues which were the core problems but tell me was war the solution to remove these political movements? What the war has done is now foreign terrorists are flooding into Iraq and there were 100’s flooding in when saddam was toppled because iraq has unguarded borders. So pan-Islamic movement is not the only threat as someone like you seem to think but the war has spread radical Islamic ideology across iraq and will spread throughout the world specially muslim countries.

Let me tell you this since the wars in iraq and Afghanistan only 4 to 5% terrorists have been killed by bombing. This only tells you that millions of people which were killed more than 90% were civilians and most of them were women and children.

 

[godofcricket]

There's a difference between posts like this and "justifying terrorism" IMO. Hatred of America and Western countries in general, wrong-headed, irrational and over-hasty though it may be, has to be understood and realised to be there, and it has to be accepted that some of the problems certain people have got into has been caused by those acting on their behalf.

Terrorism can never be justified, but equally people could be far more careful about the monsters they risk creating. And people could be more careful about who they elect into power to create these monsters.

Thanks for clarifying what i have been trying to say.

 

[Sanz]

The pan-Islamic movement can also be blamed and so to other political groups which have been created (there are various groups now after the war) and will continue as long as the situation remains. The pan-islamic movement is a big threat and Bush should have concentrated on them and other issues which were the core problems but tell me was war the solution to remove these political movements? What the war has done is now foreign terrorists are flooding into Iraq and there were 100’s flooding in when saddam was toppled because iraq has unguarded borders. So pan-Islamic movement is not the only threat as someone like you seem to think but the war has spread radical Islamic ideology across iraq and will spread throughout the world specially muslim countries.

Let me tell you this since the wars in iraq and Afghanistan only 4 to 5% terrorists have been killed by bombing. This only tells you that millions of people which were killed more than 90% were civilians and most of them were women and children.

Not sure you understood what I meant to say.

 

[godofcricket]

Not sure you understood what I meant to say.

I completely understood you and agree that pan-islamism is also to be blamed for the number of civilians killed. I was just trying to say its not just that group there are various small and some (large) extremist groups that have been created following the war that are involved in the killing of people. Dont get me wrong i never solely blamed the US army.

 

[Flem274*]

Reading all this has pointed out a very simple solution for world leaders to stop violence against their people: stop blowing each other up. Its quite simple. Unfortunately the highly intelligent folks in the US, Iran etc don't quite have that ability.

I mean seriously, why don't the US, UK, Iran, Iraq etc all go to a meeting and say "we won't attack each other." Might not work, especially knowing nutty politicians, but if they stuck to it alot of the problems would go away.

Of course sections of each society would try to keep things nasty, but if local governments dealt with them severely, instead of funding/helping them, then alot of them would go away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an idealistic ****** that lives in the hippie clouds of non-reality chanting "peace on earth". I know there'll never be peace, but a little goodwill would help solve a few issues. We'd also have a chance of having a ****ing cricket tournament in Pakistan for a change.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Reading all this has pointed out a very simple solution for world leaders to stop violence against their people: stop blowing each other up. Its quite simple. Unfortunately the highly intelligent folks in the US, Iran etc don't quite have that ability.

I mean seriously, why don't the US, UK, Iran, Iraq etc all go to a meeting and say "we won't attack each other." Might not work, especially knowing nutty politicians, but if they stuck to it alot of the problems would go away.

Of course sections of each society would try to keep things nasty, but if local governments dealt with them severely, instead of funding/helping them, then alot of them would go away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an idealistic ****** that lives in the hippie clouds of non-reality chanting "peace on earth". I know there'll never be peace, but a little goodwill would help solve a few issues. We'd also have a chance of having a ****ing cricket tournament in Pakistan for a change.

Aren't the people responsible in Pakistan extremist in nature though?

 

[Richard]

Reading all this has pointed out a very simple solution for world leaders to stop violence against their people: stop blowing each other up. Its quite simple. Unfortunately the highly intelligent folks in the US, Iran etc don't quite have that ability.

I mean seriously, why don't the US, UK, Iran, Iraq etc all go to a meeting and say "we won't attack each other." Might not work, especially knowing nutty politicians, but if they stuck to it alot of the problems would go away.

Of course sections of each society would try to keep things nasty, but if local governments dealt with them severely, instead of funding/helping them, then alot of them would go away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an idealistic ****** that lives in the hippie clouds of non-reality chanting "peace on earth". I know there'll never be peace, but a little goodwill would help solve a few issues. We'd also have a chance of having a ****ing cricket tournament in Pakistan for a change.

It would indeed be nice. I can't pretend I understand all the reasons why it's not possible, but sadly the reality is that it is.

 

[silentstriker]

Well, the champion's league is approaching, and let's see what happens. We'll find out if those players and countries complaining about Pakistan are equally worried about safety when their pockets are about to be lined.

 

[Son Of Coco]

It would indeed be nice. I can't pretend I understand all the reasons why it's not possible, but sadly the reality is that it is.

I'd say the main reason it's not possible is that in most cases these guys have nothing to do with the government and wouldn't care whether they think it should stop or not. The response to 'Please guys can we all just get along' would be laughter and explosions in all likelihood. If you disagree with the way a whole other group of people live their lives it's hard to stop.