Celebrating Sir Garry Sobers - The Bowler

[Lillian Thomson]

Just to confirm here what you're saying. You really believe that any bowler higher than a "very poor club fourth XI", would take 100 Test wickets if they got the opportunity to bowl the same number of balls that Garry Sobers did in Test Cricket?

 

[Perm]

There have been plenty of stories and instances where club bowlers have bowled at Test batsman, often retired, and have been bashed all around the nets. I fail to see why people can't see this, and realise that you do actually have to be skilled to take a haul of Test wickets.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

There have been plenty of stories and instances where club bowlers have bowled at Test batsman, often retired, and have been bashed all around the nets. I fail to see why people can't see this, and realise that you do actually have to be skilled to take a haul of Test wickets.

When you say "people" you're dealing here mainly with Miller/Khan lovers attempting to do down Sobers .......................................................................and Richard.

 

[Zinzan]

Just to confirm here what you're saying. You really believe that any bowler higher than a "very poor club fourth XI", would take 100 Test wickets if they got the opportunity to bowl the same number of balls that Garry Sobers did in Test Cricket?

Well that totally defies logic, so I'm sure thats what he mean't

 

[Ikki]

True...Specially given that all test standard players aren't patient like a Boycott or a Gavaskar or a Kallis...Eventually they'll try over-ambitious shots...Specially the tail-enders...In test level, 1 wicket per 40 overs on an average isn't far fetched even for a bowler like me...Not to mention how many runs I'll give away in those 40 overs...Maybe I'll average something like 300 per wicket @ 7.5 rpo

So, I'll get some 80 wickets if I bowl as many overs as Sobers...But my God, I'll give away wayyyy toooo many runs than him

But, BS' comment was truely pathetic...It was least expected from him...He was way off target...

I think you've touched on the right point. Yes, said player would be hopeless and would concede many many runs but he would take wickets.

 

[Richard]

Just to confirm here what you're saying. You really believe that any bowler higher than a "very poor club fourth XI", would take 100 Test wickets if they got the opportunity to bowl the same number of balls that Garry Sobers did in Test Cricket?

No, I'm saying that they'd take a decent number of Test wickets (not neccessarily 100) if they were a decent bowler (club standards vary so much it's impossible to give an exact level) and got to bowl lots and lots of Test overs.

If you bowl, you get wickets eventually. Batsmen don't play faultless strokes every delivery, they do make errors.

 

[Richard]

There have been plenty of stories and instances where club bowlers have bowled at Test batsman, often retired, and have been bashed all around the nets. I fail to see why people can't see this, and realise that you do actually have to be skilled to take a haul of Test wickets.

No-one's saying you don't. Because you earn the right to bowl lots of overs by bowling well. If you're not very good, you don't bowl the overs.

Yes, of course Test batsmen will mostly have little to no trouble with good club bowlers most of the time - but we're not talking most of the time here. The very best batsmen will eventually get out to bowlers many levels below them.

 

[weldone]

I was talking abt Srikkanth of today, not at his prime.. It happened pretty recently.

With age reflex and stamina changes, not technique (if not deliberately changed)...And to take benefit of that change in reflex, the bowler has to be very quick...

 

[weldone]

There have been plenty of stories and instances where club bowlers have bowled at Test batsman, often retired, and have been bashed all around the nets. I fail to see why people can't see this, and realise that you do actually have to be skilled to take a haul of Test wickets.

Problem is being bashed all around the ground is not opposite to taking occasional wickets...One can be bashed all around the ground and give runs away @ 8 runs per over and still take 1 or 2 occasional wickets (mainly those which batsmen gift, and believe me, they do...specially the tail-enders)...

 

[Ikki]

Problem is being bashed all around the ground is not opposite to taking occasional wickets...One can be bashed all around the ground and give runs away @ 8 runs per over and still take 1 or 2 occasional wickets (mainly those which batsmen gift, and believe me, they do...specially the tail-enders)...

Exactly, you could go at 100+ average per wicket but bowling 240 deliveries per match will make it pretty likely that you will take 1 wicket in that match.

Even in that nets scenario, do you think if a club bowler bowled 240 balls at that Test pro that test pro wouldn't make ONE mistake?

 

[SJS]

It is really amusing to hear people say that Sobers wouldn't be bowled even if in the side or to equate his 232 wickets to a club bowler being able to do that if played that long.

The fact of the matter is that, purely on the basis of his bowling, Sobers would get into most test sides of today.

 

[Ikki]

It is really amusing to hear people say that Sobers wouldn't be bowled even if in the side or to equate his 232 wickets to a club bowler being able to do that if played that long.

Mohammad Sami, one of the worst bowlers of all time would, at this rate, take more wickets than Sobers whilst bowling less. Not a club bowler, but the point keeps being missed here.

The fact of the matter is that, purely on the basis of his bowling, Sobers would get into most test sides of today.

Most of the weaker ones I think you mean.

The fact that people tout the aggregate amounts of wickets is not enough. Kapil Dev took 434 wickets. Judging by wickets taken, he is in the top handful of fast bowlers, ever - in fact, 3rd all-time, which he certainly is not.

So wickets have to be considered with how many runs were conceded for each wicket and how many balls/overs too.

 

[weldone]

or to equate his 232 wickets to a club bowler being able to do that if played that long.

None except BS said that...

 

[Sanz]

Sobers can walk into the Aussie,Indian, Pakistani,English,WI,NZ team as a Pacer/Spinner.
He will walk into the SA team as a spinner and SL team as a pacer.

 

[Ikki]

A couple of those teams, but the others? Ridiculous.

 

[Richard]

None except BS said that...

And TBF, I hope he'll realise he made a slightly hasty statement with some sound basis and row back upon it, as he's done before.

 

[Perm]

Sobers would indeed make it into all those Test sides.

 

[steve132]

It is really amusing to hear people say that Sobers wouldn't be bowled even if in the side or to equate his 232 wickets to a club bowler being able to do that if played that long.

The fact of the matter is that, purely on the basis of his bowling, Sobers would get into most test sides of today.

Well, in his prime he did hold his place solely as a bowler in a West Indian team that was the best in the world for about a five year stretch between 1962 and 1967. Hall, Griffith, Gibbs and Sobers were the main bowlers in the team. Sobers was good enough to keep players like the Jamaican fast bowler Lester King and the Guyanese slow left arm spinner Edwin Mohammed out of the team. Either of these players would be an automatic choice for today's West Indian team.

Not only that, but Sobers would have been picked solely as a bowler for any Test team in the mid-60's. There is a simple way to determine this. Ask any Test captain from that era. Most of them are still around. They said so at the time, and as far as I know none has changed his mind on this issue.

Incidentally, today is Sir Garry's 72nd birthday. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

 

[Ikki]

Sobers would indeed make it into all those Test sides.

Who would he replace in the Australia, S.African, English, Sri Lankan and Indian sides for instance?

Remember, comparing with even players like Vaas is dangerous. You are taking what you think Sobers' value could be based on his overall record and comparing it to Vaas' current trough. You should also remember, in this current trough even Vaas won't stay long. Or the opposite to Vaas, a new bowler beginning in a new team like Mitchell Johnson.

 

[Ikki]

Australia:
Clark
Lee
Johnson
Casson

S.Africa:
Steyn
Ntini
Morkel
Kallis

Sri Lanka:
Murali
Mendis
Vaas
Malinga (when fit)

India:
Sharma
Khan
Kumble
Harbhajan

England:
Sidebottom
Panesar
Anderson
Broad

----

Don't see him able to replace anyone there. Those like Broad or Casson are in there own sides purely off potential, so to argue they'd replace them is pretty ridiculous. If it came to it, a Hoggard or Harmison would be better. Most of these teams have better alternatives than to have to bring Sobers in.