*Official* 2008 Tour de France Thread

[Steulen]

I haven't seen the stage yet so I can't comment.

I'm going go for the likes of Chavenal, Cunego (surprised he hasn't abandoned) and Voigt to be in the break. The TT should be interesting, I mean Schlek (Frank) is probably a better time trialist then Sastre, but will he be looking at trying to beat his own team-mate though? It would be nice to see Sastre win, more so to see a guy actually attack and get reward for it, instead of wheel suckers like Evans.

On a different note, thanks to the selfishness of Piepoli and Ricco, Saunier Duval have pulled their sponsorship of the team, bike supplier Scott remains and they will race under that banner (certainly not the Tour of Germany and most unlikely the Vuelta), I hope they are happy with what they have done As for Gerolsteiner and Credit Agricole, both don't have new backers for next year, I really don't see how they could do anymore to get new sponsors and it would be terrible if they both have to shut up shop, as they are both teams you can trust in regards of being clean.

I am really sceptical about a French team being clean, as they were among the worst offenders only a few years ago. As for Gerolstein, Schumacher is on constant suspicion so I wouldn't back their cleanliness either.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I am really sceptical about a French team being clean, as they were among the worst offenders only a few years ago. As for Gerolstein, Schumacher is on constant suspicion so I wouldn't back their cleanliness either.

There's Rebellin too.

Disagree on CA, but then I would. I think the Norwegian testing system which Hushovd has been under for the past few years - now also Rasch - ought to uncover institutionalised, non-advanced (well, they have so rubbish results they can't be very advanced) doping in the squad, though I don't count out that a few of the Russians might have some interesting things going on.

 

[Craig]

I am really sceptical about a French team being clean, as they were among the worst offenders only a few years ago. As for Gerolstein, Schumacher is on constant suspicion so I wouldn't back their cleanliness either.

I suppose you could say that about almost every pro cyclist then. Ajelandro Valverde (ie Valv Pitti), David Millar, and a few Rabo boys had allegedly been making trips to a blood bank in Vienna (just to name a few!). And not to forget those who either train or used to train under the 'guidence' of Dr Luigi Cecchini. TBF nothing has been proven against Dr Cecchini so far, but with the number of riders who have failed or have admitted taking drugs, and that he does not do any interviews (IIRC only two or three in ten years) then there is that level of suspicion.

So who would you trust then? (I'm basing the CA example on interviews with guys like Jonathan Vaughters who got stung by a bee in the 2001 TdF and his eye puffed up due to an allergic reaction and his team would not let him take the banned cortisone for it.)

And if the full list of athletes named in Operación Puerto ever gets out in public then I guess we would see some real big names listed in other sports.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Enjoyable stage last night. First one I've got the chance to watch in full this Tour, mostly just caught highlights otherwise.

 

[Steulen]

I suppose you could say that about almost every pro cyclist then. Ajelandro Valverde (ie Valv Pitti), David Millar, and a few Rabo boys had allegedly been making trips to a blood bank in Vienna (just to name a few!). And not to forget those who either train or used to train under the 'guidence' of Dr Luigi Cecchini. TBF nothing has been proven against Dr Cecchini so far, but with the number of riders who have failed or have admitted taking drugs, and that he does not do any interviews (IIRC only two or three in ten years) then there is that level of suspicion.

So who would you trust then? (I'm basing the CA example on interviews with guys like Jonathan Vaughters who got stung by a bee in the 2001 TdF and his eye puffed up due to an allergic reaction and his team would not let him take the banned cortisone for it.)

And if the full list of athletes named in Operación Puerto ever gets out in public then I guess we would see some real big names listed in other sports.

It's true that basically by being a pro cyclist you are by definition also a dope suspect. Sadly that's how far it has come with the sport.

I trust the Garmin team, with their policy of total transparency (even if in practice it doesn't work out. There was a hilarious piece in a Dutch paper last week on the efforts of a journalist to get his hands on the medical report for Dutch Garmin rider Martijn Maaskant).
That means I am sufficiently convinced that there is no team-sanctioned doping practice in the Garmin team. To a slightly lower level, I also trust the Columbia team, meaning that I would be less surprised if it turned out my trust in them was wrong.

For the record, I do not trust the Rabobank team for one bit. It is led by Erik Breukink, who was part of the infamous PDM team under cyclist mass-murderer Jan Giesberts; we all know about the rasmussen affair; and young pretender Thomas Dekker is training with Cecchini.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

M Burghardt
C Barredo
R Feillu
C Le Mevel
M Astarloza
S Dumoulin
C Dessel
R Kreuziger
L Hoste
A Schleck

I get one thin point today. Any better? Dullest stage.

 

[Burgey]

I suppose you could say that about almost every pro cyclist then. Ajelandro Valverde (ie Valv Pitti), David Millar, and a few Rabo boys had allegedly been making trips to a blood bank in Vienna (just to name a few!). And not to forget those who either train or used to train under the 'guidence' of Dr Luigi Cecchini. TBF nothing has been proven against Dr Cecchini so far, but with the number of riders who have failed or have admitted taking drugs, and that he does not do any interviews (IIRC only two or three in ten years) then there is that level of suspicion.

So who would you trust then? (I'm basing the CA example on interviews with guys like Jonathan Vaughters who got stung by a bee in the 2001 TdF and his eye puffed up due to an allergic reaction and his team would not let him take the banned cortisone for it.)

And if the full list of athletes named in Operación Puerto ever gets out in public then I guess we would see some real big names listed in other sports.

????

 

[Craig]

M Burghardt
C Barredo
R Feillu
C Le Mevel
M Astarloza
S Dumoulin
C Dessel
R Kreuziger
L Hoste
A Schleck

I get one thin point today. Any better? Dullest stage.

Serves Barredo right as well. I don't think I got a point at all.

????

 

[Craig]

Cunego is out. Chavanal has joined Quick Step for next year.

 

[Craig]

Did anybody get any points last night?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Did anybody get any points last night?

Yeah, Pickup got 37.
Stage 18

54  (- 8)  Mørk        (506, + 1)
130 (- 7)  Mitchell    (480, + 0)
143 (- 6)  Pickup      (475, + 0)
308 (- 2)  Bowen       (416, + 0)
321 (- 5)  Walsh       (410, + 0)
353 (  0)  Dwyer       (387, + 2)
371 (- 4)  Thomas      (380, + 0)
409 (- 2)  Clapham     (336, + 0)
416 (+ 5)  Reddlapalli (320, + 8)
422 (- 2)  Gray        (313, + 0)
425 (  0)  Young       (304, + 4)

Reddlapalli best with 69th

Stage 19

59  (+ 5)  Mørk        (532, +26)
126 (+17)  Pickup      (512, +37)
149 (-19)  Mitchell    (503, +23)
312 (+ 4)  Bowen       (438, +22)
345 (-29)  Walsh       (419, + 9)
362 (+ 9)  Thomas      (404, +24)
370 (-17)  Dwyer       (399, +12)
398 (+11)  Clapham     (368, +32)
412 (+10)  Gray        (343, +30)
423 (- 7)  Reddlapalli (323, + 3)
426 (- 1)  Young       (318, +14)

Pickup our best with 60th courtesy of Förster finally doing something in a sprint.

 

[pasag]

Hakon or Craig, feel like a bit of a noob for asking, but what's the deal here? How many days are left and do we know the winner before the final day? Is there a 'must watch' dash to the finish line/ conclusion and what are Evan's chances?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Hakon or Craig, feel like a bit of a noob for asking, but what's the deal here? How many days are left and do we know the winner before the final day? Is there a 'must watch' dash to the finish line/ conclusion and what are Evan's chances?

Two days left. Tonight is the decisive one - they're doing a 50 km time trial race, so each rider starts on his own and they clock the time it takes to race from start to finish.

The overall standings are as follows:
Carlos Sastre leads
84 seconds ahead of Fränk Schleck
93 ahead of Bernhard Kohl
94 ahead of Cadel Evans
159 ahead of Denis Menchov.

However, neither of the first three are good time triallists - Schleck and Kohl in particular - and Menchov is ok but not in Evans' league. So really it's a case of whether Evans can beat Sastre by 94 seconds over 50 km, which odds makers give him about 66 % of doing.

Evans should start at 00:17 Melbourne time and finish a little over an hour later, then Sastre will come in about ten minutes after that and the Tour will be decided. There is a stage tomorrow, but it is so flat and so important for the sprinter teams that it should be impossible to get anything there.

 

[pasag]

Cheers, will be watching mate. Thanks for that.

 

[Craig]

Hakon or Craig, feel like a bit of a noob for asking, but what's the deal here? How many days are left and do we know the winner before the final day? Is there a 'must watch' dash to the finish line/ conclusion and what are Evan's chances?

Ok, it is Evans

Tonight is the last time trial, the last major chance for Evans to have a chance to win, as tomorrow's stage (Sunday night) take's us to the Champs-Elysees in Paris and all chances of trying to win will be almost gone.

So tonight is the time trial covering 53km and the top five are:

1- Carlos Sastre @82.54.36 (total time to have completed the race thus far)
2- Frank Schleck @1.24 (Sastre's team mate as well)
3- Bernhard Kohl @1.33
4- Cadel Evans @1.34
5- Denis Menchov @2.39

So basically in lay man terms, Evans has to finish at least 1min 34 sec ahead of Sastre, and he has to hope Schleck and Kohl (or Menchov) to ride quicker then what he does. To get a basic understanding of how it works, if Sastre rides the time trial and finishes at 1:02:34 (read 1hr 2min and 34 sec) then Evans has to finish with a time of at least 1:00:59 (1hr 59 sec) and then he will take over as the race leader, providing none of the other 3 remaining riders finish ahead of Cadel. Like wise if Schleck, Kohl and Menchov all finish within Evans and Sastre's time then, Evans would still be the race leader, and Sastre will move down to 5th spot, the other 3 will take 2nd, 3rd and 4th depending on what was their finishing time.

Mencov has the hardest amount of work as he has to finish at least 2.39 ahead of the next rider of the other 4 riders, shall he be able to do that, he would take the race leader's Yellow Jersey. So all five have a chance to win, although it is unlikely Menchov will win, as he is very strong in the TT he will have to hope for a bad day to his other 4 rivals, a podium position is much more likely. Evans is the strongest of the lot and is therefore the favourite to win as he much better in the TT then the rest of the guys in the top 3, but like any sport, there is a lot of pressure on him, and he copes with the pressure best, wins.

I should point out, that neither of them actually doesn't have to to win the stage to take the lead, so as long as one of them finishes with a big enough lead of what they were trailing then they lead the race and the more likely winner. Understand? Clear as mud

As for tomorrow, in order to win, one of them will have to break off and finish ahead of the bunch to what they trail, but I should point out, that the Champs Elysees is 8km circuit where the bunch travels between 50-60km/h on average to turn it in to a sprint for the sprinters, so to break off, a guy would have to travel at close to 70km/h on his own to hold off the bunch and to win, and that is physically impossible.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Two days left. Tonight is the decisive one - they're doing a 50 km time trial race, so each rider starts on his own and they clock the time it takes to race from start to finish.

The overall standings are as follows:
Carlos Sastre leads
84 seconds ahead of Fränk Schleck
93 ahead of Bernhard Kohl
94 ahead of Cadel Evans
159 ahead of Denis Menchov.

However, neither of the first three are good time triallists - Schleck and Kohl in particular - and Menchov is ok but not in Evans' league. So really it's a case of whether Evans can beat Sastre by 94 seconds over 50 km, which odds makers give him about 66 % of doing.

Evans should start at 00:17 Melbourne time and finish a little over an hour later, then Sastre will come in about ten minutes after that and the Tour will be decided. There is a stage tomorrow, but it is so flat and so important for the sprinter teams that it should be impossible to get anything there.

I only follow cycling for the drugs busts, really. With the authorities' "targetted swoops" this year there has to be a big question mark over this fellow, with his dad's car being searched by customs. Someone who knows something has told someone who's told someone IMHO....

 

[pasag]

Thanks Craigos .

 

[Craig]

I only follow cycling for the drugs busts, really. With the authorities' "targetted swoops" this year there has to be a big question mark over this fellow, with his dad's car being searched by customs. Someone who knows something has told someone who's told someone IMHO....

His old man's car was just a random search (apparently), nothing was found so off he went. I should point out his team does do extensive testing (the cost is a close to 800,000 Euros a season), blood level testing roughly every two weeks plus a whole other battery of tests, I'm sure if something was amiss it would of been found by now.

The thing is that Schleck is not a random, he has been touted as an outsider for the overall anyway. Mind you he part of the break that got away in the Pyrennes and was able to build up time and stay there.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Evans has lost 16 seconds to Menchov by checkpoint 1.
Apparently also losing to Kohl. Edit: indeed, four seconds back. Now for Schleck & Sastre...

Schleck losing a minute to Evans, Sastre only lost 8 seconds and still is 81 ahead of Kohl, 86 ahead of Evans.

 

[Nate]

Yeah, he hasn't started well. A bit worrying.