***Official*** South Africa in England

[Richard]

Flintoff gooooooooonnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeee to Morne.

And I'm off to t'gym.

 

[gio]

With the test virtually over, can we look ahead to the 3rd test to stave off the depression....

Is there any hope of England winning the last two tests? There's obviously a few changes needed, what's the verdict?

 

[GIMH]

I fear for us in India and V Australia, I really do

 

[wpdavid]

With the test virtually over, can we look ahead to the 3rd test to stave off the depression....

Is there any hope of England winning the last two tests? There's obviously a few changes needed, what's the verdict?

The only hope is that there's been no such thing as momentum in previous series between these sides. England have come back from massively crushing defeats with minimal changes in personnel, so theoretically it can happen again. However, this batting lineup has been misfiring for so long that just can't see that taking place.

 

[BoyBrumby]

With the test virtually over, can we look ahead to the 3rd test to stave off the depression....

Is there any hope of England winning the last two tests? There's obviously a few changes needed, what's the verdict?

There are so many problems with the team just now it's almost too depressing to begin to address them all.

First off tho, Ambrose isn't a test 6, that much is obvious. If he's to be retained as keeper we have to ditch one of the bowlers. Broad's looked the least capable with the ball (without looking I'd guess his average must be nudging 50 now) &, by playing another batsman, this mitigates the need for his runs down the order (at least in theory) so a batsman (& Shah must be due a go) is required, however I suspect Collingwood (medium pace fill-in & all) might still be first in the selectors' minds.

Mick looks out of touch, but he's still our best captain so retains his spot, knee-permitting.

Fred's showed he can shoulder a decent workload, but his one wicket has shown he's no panacea.

Sid is probably still our bowler most likely to if fit, so he comes back for Pattinson, who hasn't shown enough to justify jumping to the front of the queue for me. If Sid's back doesn't permit I'd call Jones the Swerve back to the colours.

If one thinks a spinner is required for Edgbaston (& I do) Monty must be retained.

So:

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan*
Pietersen
Bell
Shah/Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose+
Sidebottom/Jones
Anderson
Panesar

 

[steds]

Anderson
Horton
Broad
Pietersen
Cook
Bell
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose
Sidebottom
Panesar

IMO

 

[silentstriker]

This Broad fellow is very impressive with the bat, especially for a #9.

 

[gio]

The talent in the batting is there though - the top 5 all average over 40, they just don't apply themselves well enough in difficult situations.

Flintoff now poses a significant problem. He and Ambrose are not batting well enough to come in at 6, yet it's a big test of Fred's fitness to be part of a 3 man seam attack. I'd be suprised if Ambrose isn't retained, so what do England do?

Personally, I've always been a fan of a 5 man attack, though I'm not sure if Vaughan (as much as I love him) utilises it very well. However, if Sidebottom or Jones are part of that attack, then I think he may be more inclined to share out the overs. That then brings the selection of Broad into consideration. With a poor 6 & 7, Broad's importance to the side at 8 is amplified. But is his bowling good enough to justify selection? I'd love to be a fly-on-the-wall in the upcoming selection meetings...

Monty's out...

 

[Manee]

I can imagine Botham now: "No good. I want Freddie and Anderson to open, KP at 3, Vaughan at 8, Broad at 4, Ambrose at 11 and the rest'll sort itself out".

 

[gio]

Assuming Sidebottom's fit, I'd just do a direct swap for Pattinson, and hope Broad can find some sort of form with Ottis Gibson in the nets. Jones for Broad would leave me very concerned after the 4th wicket goes down...

 

[pasag]

This Broad fellow is very impressive with the bat, especially for a #9.

He's not a number 9 though, he's only playing there because of the nightwatchman.

 

[steds]

I can imagine Botham now: "No good. I want Freddie and Anderson to open, blahblahblah".

You can take the boy out of Cheshire...

 

[steds]

He's not a number 9 though, he's only playing there because of the well earned promotion for Jimmy.

Corrected.

 

[aussie tragic]

Why not bat Broad at # 6 as he's scored 42, 31*, 25, 30, 64, 76, 17, 34* in his last 8 innings to average over 50 (certainly better than Ambrose)

Just joking

 

[pasag]

Will be livid if de Villiers gets MOTM over Prince.

 

[Manee]

Why not bat Broad at # 6 as he's scored 42, 31*, 25, 30, 64, 76, 17, 34* in his last 8 innings to average over 50 (certainly better than Ambrose)

Just joking

I wouldn't be joking, of course the average is inflated, but if England insist on playing him (which is the absolutely wrong move!!!) then he should go six in the current side, imo.

 

[zaremba]

Anderson
Horton
Broad
Pietersen
Cook
Bell
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose
Sidebottom
Panesar

IMO

Not sure how serious the Horton suggestion is, but he can't be too far away from consideration. I've not seen very much of him though. What are his strengths and weaknesses, and what's his recent form like (I'm aware he's got a good overall record and, IIRC, a bad haircut)?

 

[gio]

Strauss and Cook are here to stay for the time being. Only injury will change things.

 

[grecian]

This Broad fellow is very impressive with the bat, especially for a #9.

Yes, indeed, but as I'm sure your hinting at, his bowling is not Test class.

So depressed about this batting performance, the bowling pales to be perfectly frank.

but for what it's worth, here's my side for Edgbaston.

Cook
Strauss
Shah
Bell
KP (captain)
Collingwood
Foster
Flintoff
Sidebottom
Jones
Panesar

Yes it's a massive risk with two potential cripples in a four-man bowling outfit, but what have we got to lose.

Vaughn need's to be dropped, it's not just the ball's he gets out to, he just looks in terrible nick. If the other batter's can be sent away to purgatory (or county cricket as it's otherwise known) until they bat themselves into form, then it's got to be the same with our cap'n. If his knees won't sustain him through that, maybe it's time to retire. I don't say that lightly, tbh, because he's up with Gower and Stewart as my fave batsmen to watch playing for England.

I almost entered that side without a WK, possibly freudian considering the troubles we're having in that position.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I'd still go with:

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
Ambrose/Mustard/whoever
Sidebottom
Anderson
Jones