Keith Miller v Sir Garry Sobers

[Richard]

Duplicate accounts?

So ignore completely the disproving and state once again as if proven?

And that's not something I often have to do with you Sean.

 

[archie mac]

So ignore completely the disproving and state once again as if proven?

And that's not something I often have to do with you Sean.

I thought it obvious that I was making a general comment as I did not mention any names, that was your choice Dear Richard

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Kenny Barrington was a better Test batsman than Peter May. There is no two ways about that. While there may be a decent amount of truth in the suggestion that May was superior against the seamers to Barrington and Barrington was much superior against spin than seam, the suggestion that Barrington was essentially incapable against top-quality seam is utter nonsense. And he'd have to be for May to have been a better batsman.

The place the May > Barrington claims come from is because they were both Surrey players, and as many of the assessments in those days came from those who watched domestic cricket as international. May was easily the better batsman of the two for Surrey, but he certainly wasn't for England.

This is indeed very odd, but it's the way it is. There's several reasons why it could have been, none of which completely explain such vast disparities.

That post probably emphasises why he said no one who "saw" them both believes it.

 

[archie mac]

That post probably emphasises why he said no one who "saw" them both believes it.

Little doubt that everone who watched them both had May miles in front, including all those who played with and against them

I am yet to read otherwise

 

[Richard]

Who are these people making said comparison whose work you've read then Sean? Be interesting to see where they're coming from.

 

[Richard]

I thought it obvious that I was making a general comment as I did not mention any names, that was your choice Dear Richard

Yeah, exactly - you can't make a general comment that has no specific examples which conform to it. It means the general comment is mistaken.

 

[Richard]

That post probably emphasises why he said no one who "saw" them both believes it.

I've seen a decent bit of Barrington and quite a lot of May.

 

[archie mac]

Who are these people making said comparison whose work you've read then Sean? Be interesting to see where they're coming from.

Jim Laker for one, has stated so in more then one book I have read, also Trueman, who had a lot of respect for both but thought May one of the very best he ever played with or against, but he said that he would have KB batting for his life.

Maybe someone could show me where they rate KB above May?

 

[Richard]

I've never seen anyone who does - but I've never read anything from someone who faced or played with them more in Test cricket than domestic cricket.

Both of those players have far more reason to rate them as Surrey than England players.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I've seen a decent bit of Barrington and quite a lot of May.

By "saw" he presumably meant people who were around watching and playing cricket at that time not watching a few minutes of film 40 years later.

 

[archie mac]

Yeah, exactly - you can't make a general comment that has no specific examples which conform to it. It means the general comment is mistaken.

No, that logic is wrong, what I was saying that people who criticise Sobers as not being a true all rounder, will use the same or similar silly arguments based on stats to try and prove as fact there own opinion

 

[Richard]

By "saw" he presumably meant people who were around watching and playing cricket at that time not watching a few minutes of film 40 years later.

I've seen far more than a few minutes of film.

 

[Richard]

No, that logic is wrong, what I was saying that people who criticise Sobers as not being a true all rounder, will use the same or similar silly arguments based on stats to try and prove as fact there own opinion

You said they're the same people who use stats in the Lillee and Richards examples... but they're not. Some people try to have it one way in some cases and another in others.

 

[fredfertang]

Jim Laker for one, has stated so in more then one book I have read, also Trueman, who had a lot of respect for both but thought May one of the very best he ever played with or against, but he said that he would have KB batting for his life.

Maybe someone could show me where they rate KB above May?

And Laker and May had at least one monumental falling out

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I've seen far more than a few minutes of film.

Don't be silly.

 

[archie mac]

You said they're the same people who use stats in the Lillee and Richards examples... but they're not. Some people try to have it one way in some cases and another in others.

I think you are nit picking, if they rate Richards but do not rate Lillee, that is not the point it is the way they choose to prove their point, which I gave examples, the fact that BS rates Richards but not Lillee is interesting but does nothing to disprove what I said.

This will be my last post on the subject as these arguments that I see you have with other posters seem to generate into silly point scoring, and I simply to not have the desire

 

[Richard]

Don't be silly.

I don't.

 

[Richard]

I think you are nit picking, if they rate Richards but do not rate Lillee, that is not the point it is the way they choose to prove their point, which I gave examples, the fact that BS rates Richards but not Lillee is interesting but does nothing to disprove what I said.

What you meant then is not "they are the same people who say Lillee isn't the greatest and Richards isn't the greatest" but "they use the same methods as those who say Lillee isn't the greatest and Richards isn't the greatest".

 

[archie mac]

What you meant then is not "they are the same people who say Lillee isn't the greatest and Richards isn't the greatest" but "they use the same methods as those who say Lillee isn't the greatest and Richards isn't the greatest".

Not exactly the same method but similar flawed (imo) methods, that I don't agree with

 

[archie mac]

And Laker and May had at least one monumental falling out

Yes, but just like Bradman and O'Reilly they had great respect for the other