***Official*** South Africa in England

[BoyBrumby]

Yup, seems to be some truth in that. Almost as if the authorities are looking overseas for a great redeemer rather than their own backyard

I'm not so sure. I think Pattinson's selection was a clunker, but I don't think he's been selected because he's an Aussie, rather because he's the kind of swing bowler who pitches the ball up who've traditionally profited from Headingley's conditions.

In another thread Goughy has been an advocate of Jonathan Trott, whose accent is distinctly Seth Efrican, but his non-Englishness hasn't been deemed worthy of getting him a go in our ODI team.

In the case of Pattinson we've selected a "foreigner" who wasn't worthy, but we've also selected no-end of Englishmen who've been equally wanting at the highest level (Plunkett, Mahmood, Blackwell, Lewis et al), so I personally think players are generally selected on their merits (however disputable) rather than birthplace/accent.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I don't think that's Goughy's point. He's not talking about at the highest level, he's talking lower down the tree.

 

[Zinzan]

I'm not so sure. I think Pattinson's selection was a clunker, but I don't think he's been selected because he's an Aussie, rather because he's the kind of swing bowler who pitches the ball up who've traditionally profited from Headingley's conditions.

In another thread Goughy has been an advocate of Jonathan Trott, whose accent is distinctly Seth Efrican, but his non-Englishness hasn't been deemed worthy of getting him a go in our ODI team.

In the case of Pattinson we've selected a "foreigner" who wasn't worthy, but we've also selected no-end of Englishmen who've been equally wanting at the highest level (Plunkett, Mahmood, Blackwell, Lewis et al), so I personally think players are generally selected on their merits (however disputable) rather than birthplace/accent.

I actually liked what I saw of Plunkett in the CB series in Oz in 2007, I assume he lost form after that tournament

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't think that's Goughy's point. He's not talking about at the highest level, he's talking lower down the tree.

Fair enough then. Zinzan's original point was about internationals, so I just assumed that was his gist:

On your point, Its always amazed me that England's had so many overseas born internationals over the years.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I actually liked what I saw of Plunkett in the CB series in Oz in 2007, I assume he lost form after that tournament

God, just wait until Richard sees this post.

 

[Richard]

Indeed.

I actually liked what I saw of Plunkett in the CB series in Oz in 2007, I assume he lost form after that tournament

Plunkett is, along with Mahmood, the worst bowler to be picked for England in my time and probably had less case to be so than Pattinson has here.

And that's saying something.

Those 4 games at the end of the CBS were one of the biggest flukes ever.

 

[Richard]

Whats wrong with that? Its a decent Yorkshire League team thats right next to Grimsby (where he is from) and one of the top few leagues in the country.

Assuming it was a reference to Pickup

Aye, that 'twas. Was amazed at the Pattinson-Pickup connection. Wonder if he was ever playing at the club at the same time as our very own Esteemed Ginger One was u12ing or something.

 

[Zinzan]

Indeed

Plunkett is, along with Mahmood, the worst bowler to be picked for England in my time and probably had less case to be so than Pattinson has here.

And that's saying something.

Those 4 games at the end of the CBS were one of the biggest flukes ever.[/QUOTE]

Well, thats all I've ever seen of him, hense my impression

 

[Flem274*]

Wasn't Plunkett the guy who bowled like 10 wides in his first few overs or something in a CB series match against us? Or was that Mahmood?

 

[Richard]

You should ask where everyone's irrational love of a finger spinner that contributes very little comes from. At least Giles could bat and field whilst being a non-factor with the ball most of the time.

Neither of them deserved picking nearly as much as they have been.

It's very obvious, of course, where the love of MSP comes from - the masses adore his enthusiasm.

It's also very obvious why both MSP and Giles have been picked far more than they should be \ have been - the "you must have variation" nonsense. It's as pointless moaning about it as it is calling the selectors idiots.

 

[The Masterplan]

Indeed.

Plunkett is, along with Mahmood, the worst bowler to be picked for England in my time and probably had less case to be so than Pattinson has here.

And that's saying something.

Those 4 games at the end of the CBS were one of the biggest flukes ever.

dont be so harsh on Saj hes taken 28 first class wickets this season already

 

[Goughy]

Actually I ws talking about Test and domestic cricket.

Its impossible not to notice the trends in selection and that foreign 'fashionable' players have to do far less in order to be selected whereas similarly standard English players are overlooked.

Of course there have been brilliant foreign players for England, however this isnt about the top performers rather than the poor players that get selected as 'foreign' translate to a bonus in selection.

Trott played for England in T20 so he has obviously been involved. There may just be something happening behind the scenes.

 

[Richard]

Well, thats all I've ever seen of him, hense my impression

Helps to look further when forming an impression TBH. Plunkett never had any form, he should never have been close to being picked as I say, and he didn't even bowl particularly well in those games. Got gifted a few wickets (and once actually took some wickets, along with being smashed for 7-an-over in some of the most seam\swing-friendly conditions you'll ever see) but for most of the rest of his career he's been wretched.

Consider this - a few days ago, Plunkett had figures (in a First-Class game) of 4.1-44-0. And that wouldn't have done him an injustice - he really is capable of bowling that badly, not irregularly. I'm sometimes astonished that he ever made it to professional, never mind ODI and Test, level, so inept can he be.

Wasn't Plunkett the guy who bowled like 10 wides in his first few overs or something in a CB series match against us? Or was that Mahmood?

Could easily have been either.

 

[Richard]

dont be so harsh on Saj hes taken 28 first class wickets this season already

I know he has. Obviously I've only watched 1 of those games, but in that he bowled as woefully as he usually does and did not take so much as a single one of the 8(?) wickets in the game with good bowling.

 

[Flem274*]

Richard, 80% of the time, when a batsman plays a ******** shot and gets out, its because the bowler owned him.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Actually I ws talking about Test and domestic cricket.

Its impossible not to notice the trends in selection and that foreign 'fashionable' players have to do far less in order to be selected whereas similarly standard English players are overlooked.

Of course there have been brilliant foreign players for England, however this isnt about the top performers rather than the poor players that get selected as 'foreign' translate to a bonus in selection.

Trott played for England in T20 so he has obviously been involved. There may just be something happening behind the scenes.

Before Pattinson none immediately spring to mind. Of the "foreigners" who've played of late we might include Ambrose, Prior (at a stretch), Trott, KP & Geraint. None outrageous picks, really. Geraint being recalled for the 06/07 Ashes was a disgraceful call, but I think that had more to do with Big Dunc not fancying Read than anything else.

 

[Richard]

Richard, 80% of the time, when a batsman plays a ******** shot and gets out, its because the bowler owned him.

Nah. Not a chance.

Any time someone hits a rank Long-Hop to a fielder, it's NEVER good bowling IN THE SLIGHTEST. It's pure good fortune for the bowler, he has done NOTHING to deserve the wicket.

It's annoying in the extreme to see people attempt to give credit to bowlers for poor bowling simply because the figures turned-out good.

 

[Richard]

Unusual. Ball hits the pad and is caught slip, appeal, no-one sure what for.

All's well that ends well - was no bat, was too high, n\o the decision.

 

[steds]

Is it me, or does it look like the ball's going through quicker today?

 

[Goughy]

Before Pattinson none immediately spring to mind. Of the "foreigners" who've played of late we might include Ambrose, Prior (at a stretch), Trott, KP & Geraint. None outrageous picks, really. Geraint being recalled for the 06/07 Ashes was a disgraceful call, but I think that had more to do with Big Dunc not fancying Read than anything else.

I look back as I meantioned all this far before Pattinson was relevant.