***Official*** South Africa in England

[Richard]

One would think that if the man himself has tried to change it that it has obviously had a debilitating effect for him (or a perceived one). I dont think its an issue at the moment and i do get annoyed when people still bring it up, but at the time of his debut it definetly appeared to be an issue.

I'm sure it did start to have an effect on him - once people started saying, shortly after the series, that he looked overawed. If lots of people are saying you look overawed, it's generally a good idea to take steps to try and dispell that and it was a good idea for Bell to make an effort to emulate Pietersen's mannerisms to make himself look less overawed.

Whether he was, though, is most debateable IMO.

 

[Richard]

Well obviously not, but by the same measure you can't state with any authority that he's only perceived as timid because of his physical stature and the like.

Of course I can't - that's purely the way I see it.

 

[tooextracool]

The fact that it swung away, a lot, at a very sharp pace. As I said - at best a different shot would have resulted in a nick.

That is the point. The fact is that England had been nicking deliveries and getting away with it all morning. Fact is had Vaughan got his front foot forwards and negated the swing, at worst he would have nicked it.

 

[Richard]

Your point being? Yes some poor batsmen tend to do so often and some good batsmen do so occasionally as well. My point is that that delivery is nowhere near as unplayable as you seem to be making it out to be. It was a good ball, but theres no excuse for players getting out to good balls if you are playing for the national side.

I assure you, batsmen (good and poor) get out to deliveries worse than that in perhaps 29 innings out of 30. Seems this has attracted more criticism than most batsmen get for slapping a Long-Hop to cover or playing at a nothing ball that should've been left. I am fairly sure that very few batsmen would have survived that delivery. Unfortunately, there is no real way to know short of some form of HawkEye plot which identifies any identical ball Steyn may bowl at some points in this series, if he bowls any, and seeing how it is dealt with.

Its not like that was the first ball that Dale Steyn swung during that spell. Its absolutely inexcusable to completely miss a ball that swung about a stumps width. He should at least have gotten an edge on that one.

I'd quite like to see exactly how much that ball had deviated as it passed the batsman, because I'd be willing to bet it was a bit more than a couple of cm.

I'm sure, BTW, that you don't need reminding that edging a ball results in dismissal (presuming a simple catch is taken, obviously...) same as missing one that hits the stumps.

 

[Richard]

30 off 18 for Bell, then 12 off 42.

 

[tooextracool]

I assure you, batsmen (good and poor) get out to deliveries worse than that in perhaps 29 innings out of 30. Seems this has attracted more criticism than most batsmen get for slapping a Long-Hop to cover or playing at a nothing ball that should've been left. I am fairly sure that very few batsmen would have survived that delivery. Unfortunately, there is no real way to know short of some form of HawkEye plot which identifies any identical ball Steyn may bowl at some points in this series, if he bowls any, and seeing how it is dealt with.

You have missed the point completely. Every player makes mistakes and thats hardly relevant. The point is that thats not an unplayable delivery that we can just say 'oh Vaughan got a good delivery so we can forgive him for playing a crap shot to it and getting out'. Yes good players get out to bad deliveries plenty. But they also negotiate tons of good deliveries and dont get much credit for it.

I'm sure, BTW, that you don't need reminding that edging a ball results in dismissal (presuming a simple catch is taken, obviously...) same as missing one that hits the stumps.

Err if you are any sort of half decent batsman, you would know that if you played with soft hands(which you should do if you dont get to the pitch of the ball anyways) the ball is in all likelyhood not going to carry. On this pitch, the ball is 99/100 not going to carry to slip unless you pushed hard at it.

 

[GIMH]

Decent partnership by the sounds of it

 

[Richard]

You have missed the point completely. Every player makes mistakes and thats hardly relevant. The point is that thats not an unplayable delivery that we can just say 'oh Vaughan got a good delivery so we can forgive him for playing a crap shot to it and getting out'. Yes good players get out to bad deliveries plenty. But they also negotiate tons of good deliveries and dont get much credit for it.

I think we're going to have to leave it at that I feel it was a better ball than you do. Vaughan got out to it, and let's see how he goes in his next innings. A failure is a failure and if they carry on for too long questions are going to start being asked regardless of how the dismissals have happened.

Err if you are any sort of half decent batsman, you would know that if you played with soft hands(which you should do if you dont get to the pitch of the ball anyways) the ball is in all likelyhood not going to carry. On this pitch, the ball is 99/100 not going to carry to slip unless you pushed hard at it.

I really don't see many batsmen covering that amount of swing and playing it softly.

 

[Richard]

Decent partnership by the sounds of it

Morne Morkel has bowled well this spell, too - been very difficult to get away, and just the 1 no-ball so far.

 

[Richard]

KPP taking-on Harris here. 2 no-balls in the over from Harris, ridiculous stuff.

 

[tooextracool]

Odds on Bell getting 50 odd and throw it all away? This pitch is about as dead a pitch as you can hope for and anything less than 400 is an absolute joke. Good way to neutralize the 3 genuine quicks in the SA side.

 

[tooextracool]

I really don't see many batsmen covering that amount of swing and playing it softly.

Firstly, had he got onto the front foot, he would have negated most of the swing. Unless of course you think that the ball went straight on for the last foot or so before it hit the stumps. Secondly, the point of playing the ball with soft hands is to ensure that you still manage to keep it down when you dont cover the swing.

 

[Richard]

Odds on Bell getting 50 odd and throw it all away? This pitch is about as dead a pitch as you can hope for and anything less than 400 is an absolute joke. Good way to neutralize the 3 genuine quicks in the SA side.

TBF I was almost expecting him to have thrown it away before now. You always feel heart-in-mouth with him because you know a bad shot can come out of nowhere any time, but let's hope he can get another very large score today to go with that double-century last week.

These two certainly need to add quite a few if England are to be in the game methinks. And if SA can nip 2 or 3 out with the new-ball, they're straight in there.

 

[Richard]

Fifty for Pietersen.

Wonder how much this strokeplay he's been up to recently is concerned with the relatively soon due new ball.

 

[tooextracool]

Harris is serving up some real pies here ATM. Seems afraid to give the ball any air. Wonder how much more we will see this innings.

 

[pasag]

KP looking good, besides that brief burst from SA the game has kinda fizzled a bit until now. Flat tracks + defensive batting is usually a recipe for somewhat boring Test cricket. Kallis and co should have a field-day on this track.

 

[Richard]

First slower-ball we've seen today, Pietersen totally failed to read it but fortunately missed it.

 

[Richard]

KP looking good, besides that brief burst from SA the game has kinda fizzled a bit until now. Flat tracks + defensive batting is usually a recipe for somewhat boring Test cricket. Kallis and co should have a field-day on this track.

Reckon that if we had a full five days this match just might be a cracker. If, that is, bowlers can strike with the new ball.

Sadly, however, there's almost certainty that we won't get full days' play tomorrow and the next day.

 

[Richard]

Bell now 18 from 64 after his 30 from 18.

Mainly, of course, because the SAfricans have hit much better areas since then.

 

[Richard]

Yaaaay, fifty at last.

Hilariously, as his last 71 deliveries contain no boundaries, all the "highlights" are from 3 hours ago.