***Official*** South Africa in England

[Kweek]

Seeing that I can confidently assess I am 7ft tall

saw him at lords he is huge (when training @ lords that is)

 

[Richard]

Vaughan gets cleaned up in the way which everyone knew he would. It was definitely a great delivery by Steyn, but you can't help noticing that Vaughan seems to get more than his fair share of 'excellent' deliveries.

Does he?

 

[Richard]

Everyone I was talking to during the Ashes noted it actually. He looked terrified of the Australians. Not just his face and demeanor. It was reflected in his approach and shots.

As I said, though - most of the shots weren't really all that bad. IIRR he only really got himself out 3 times out of 10.

Who did you talk to during the series who said he looked so rabbit-in-headlights-esque?

 

[Goughy]

Vaughan gets cleaned up in the way which everyone knew he would. It was definitely a great delivery by Steyn, but you can't help noticing that Vaughan seems to get more than his fair share of 'excellent' deliveries.

Yeah, it was without doubt very well bowled. The perfect delivery to capitalise on Vaughans technical footwork issues.

Was a good ball.

 

[tooextracool]

Vaughan gets cleaned up in the way which everyone knew he would. It was definitely a great delivery by Steyn, but you can't help noticing that Vaughan seems to get more than his fair share of 'excellent' deliveries.

That is the point really. Vaughan essentially has the 'Tendulkar' Syndrome of making everything he gets out to look like it was the ball of the century. Fact of the matter is that it was a regular outswinger that he failed to get forward to. Almost everytime he gets out there is some excuse about it being an unplayable delivery and what not. Fact is if you are supposed to be a good player then your supposed to keep out good deliveries and that ball was just a regular outswinger that pitched on middle and swung to off.

 

[Richard]

Honestly, it'd be so much easier if some people accepted that there is such thing as a realistically unplayable delivery rather than tried to attach blame to a batsman every time he is dismissed.

 

[Goughy]

Massive session that could almost determine the Test.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

As I said, though - most of the shots weren't really all that bad. IIRR he only really got himself out 3 times out of 10.

Who did you talk to during the series who said he looked so rabbit-in-headlights-esque?

It's not about how you get out as much as how you look while you're in.

I talked to several people during the series. I can probably sit down and come up with a list of names, but it'd be inconsequential, as it's very unlikely that you'd know any of them. This doesn't diminish their credentials of cricket analysis though. That said, a baseball fan could see how timid Bell was in that series.

 

[tooextracool]

As I said, though - most of the shots weren't really all that bad. IIRR he only really got himself out 3 times out of 10.

Who did you talk to during the series who said he looked so rabbit-in-headlights-esque?

Err its been painfully obvious to everyone including Ian Bell himself. Have you not noticed how hes modelled his own mannerisms on Kevin Pietersen (along with several other things) just to impose himself at the crease? Hes talked about it himself about how hes needed to be more positive about it and theres loads of articles about it as well.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Honestly, it'd be so much easier if some people accepted that there is such thing as a realistically unplayable delivery rather than tried to attach blame to a batsman every time he is dismissed.

And you should understand that that was not realistically unplayable.

Also worth noting it's not entirely the batsman's fault when he gets out to a ball that's not "realistically unplayable". Bowler's deserve merit there too.

 

[Richard]

Err its been painfully obvious to everyone including Ian Bell himself. Have you not noticed how hes modelled his own mannerisms on Kevin Pietersen (along with several other things) just to impose himself at the crease? Hes talked about it himself about how hes needed to be more positive about it and theres loads of articles about it as well.

I know he has - all of this was decided afterwards though. Very few said at the time "Bell's like a rabbit in the headlights". I don't believe his failings that series had all that much to do with any timidity, real or imagined.

Again, it's mostly cosmetic - he's small (and he was even smaller then) so looks more "vulnerable" than someone bigger than him, and if he doesn't score it looks more like timidness than it does for someone more physically imposing.

 

[tooextracool]

Honestly, it'd be so much easier if some people accepted that there is such thing as a realistically unplayable delivery rather than tried to attach blame to a batsman every time he is dismissed.

What was so special about the delivery? It was a regular pitched up outswinger. Ok it was accurate and a decent delivery but geez who would have expected Dale Steyn to have bowled an outswinger on this tour?
Im sorry, Vaughan simply didnt get in any sort of position to play it and its sadly been the case for him for the last 5 years. Theres a reason why those sort of deliveries only get Michael Vaughan out and not any other England batsman.

 

[Richard]

And you should understand that that was not realistically unplayable.

If it wasn't, it was damn close to it. No batsman would, IMO, have avoided dismissal to that. At worst they'd have been caught behind rather than bowled.

Also worth noting it's not entirely the batsman's fault when he gets out to a ball that's not "realistically unplayable". Bowler's deserve merit there too.

Of course a bowler deserves credit when (for example) a batsman chases a big awayswinger that they could (maybe sometimes should) have left.

However, equally there are some wickets that are 100% batsman error for which the bowler deserves zero credit whatsoever. And some people refuse to accept this too.

 

[Richard]

What was so special about the delivery? It was a regular pitched up outswinger. Ok it was accurate and a decent delivery but geez who would have expected Dale Steyn to have bowled an outswinger on this tour?
Im sorry, Vaughan simply didnt get in any sort of position to play it and its sadly been the case for him for the last 5 years. Theres a reason why those sort of deliveries only get Michael Vaughan out and not any other England batsman.

So no other batsman has ever missed an outswinger?

You cannot play every ball as if it's going to swing as much as that one did. If you do you'll miss 99 deliveries out of 100 in the inside-edge.

 

[tooextracool]

I know he has - all of this was decided afterwards though. Very few said at the time "Bell's like a rabbit in the headlights". I don't believe his failings that series had all that much to do with any timidity, real or imagined.

Again, it's mostly cosmetic - he's small (and he was even smaller then) so looks more "vulnerable" than someone bigger than him, and if he doesn't score it looks more like timidness than it does for someone more physically imposing.

One would think that if the man himself has tried to change it that it has obviously had a debilitating effect for him (or a perceived one). I dont think its an issue at the moment and i do get annoyed when people still bring it up, but at the time of his debut it definetly appeared to be an issue.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

If it wasn't, it was damn close to it. No batsman would, IMO, have avoided dismissal to that. At worst they'd have been caught behind rather than bowled.

Please explain what made that delivery so unplayable and why a good stride and a straight bat wouldn't have kept it out. Keen to know.

However, equally there are some wickets that are 100% batsman error for which the bowler deserves zero credit whatsoever. And some people refuse to accept this too.

If such wickets are the result of pressure applied by the bowler, the bowler deserves a fair bit of credit actually.

 

[Richard]

It's not about how you get out as much as how you look while you're in.

True, but looking under the cosh yet staying in is one of the great skills of batting.

I talked to several people during the series. I can probably sit down and come up with a list of names, but it'd be inconsequential, as it's very unlikely that you'd know any of them. This doesn't diminish their credentials of cricket analysis though. That said, a baseball fan could see how timid Bell was in that series.

I see. Well they might be able to see how timid he looked, but unless you were into psychoanalysis you wouldn't be able to tell it to any exact degree. And as I said - he could've been more proactive and it'd have made little difference. Mostly he was got out rather than got himself out.

 

[Richard]

Please explain what made that delivery so unplayable and why a good stride and a straight bat wouldn't have kept it out. Keen to know.

The fact that it swung away, a lot, at a very sharp pace. As I said - at best a different shot would have resulted in a nick.

If such wickets are the result of pressure applied by the bowler, the bowler deserves a fair bit of credit actually.

Pressure isn't applied by the bowler - it's either felt in the mind of the batsman or it's not. The best batsmen won't feel under pressure because of the bowler - they'll just try and play each ball on its merit. Pressure isn't an aura or field - it's a feeling in the mind.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I see. Well they might be able to see how timid he looked, but unless you were into psychoanalysis you wouldn't be able to tell it to any exact degree.

Well obviously not, but by the same measure you can't state with any authority that he's only perceived as timid because of his physical stature and the like.

 

[tooextracool]

So no other batsman has ever missed an outswinger?

Your point being? Yes some poor batsmen tend to do so often and some good batsmen do so occasionally as well. My point is that that delivery is nowhere near as unplayable as you seem to be making it out to be. It was a good ball, but theres no excuse for players getting out to good balls if you are playing for the national side.

You cannot play every ball as if it's going to swing as much as that one did. If you do you'll miss 99 deliveries out of 100 in the inside-edge.

Its not like that was the first ball that Dale Steyn swung during that spell. Its absolutely inexcusable to completely miss a ball that swung about a stumps width. He should at least have gotten an edge on that one.