Who's going to be the next good spinner?

[tooextracool]

Mendis certainly has a variety of deliveries, but does not need to bowl them all the time. Sometimes the very knowledge that he can use all these variations leaves the batsmen wary of using their feet and forever looking out for one that does something unusual.

I'm not so sure. Sachin Tendulkar has essentially just as many variations(other than not being able to bowl the doosra) and even turns the ball more than Mendis and one can say that he is no better than an ordinary bowler. Any half-decent bat should be able to pick him from the hand to realise which way the ball is going. Yes perhaps, like Saqlain people may have problems picking his doosra for a short period, but no spin bowler has managed to take wickets for a consistent period of time based solely on the type of delivery variations. Sooner or later people will start to pick him and its only a matter of time before he will need to develop variations in pace and flight. The reason why Mendis has potential is not because he has many variations, its the fact that he can actually land those deliveries fairly consistently on the right part of the square.

 

[Top_Cat]

Tim May was a fingerspinner, same as Giles. May being a slightly better bowler is possible to argue, and there's no doubt as fingerspinners go he was pretty good (though not as good as his predecessor Mallett). But he couldn't turn it on ice, no fingerspinner has ever been able to do that.

No-one can turn it on ice, it's a throwaway comment. Geez.

 

[Richard]

It's a throwaway comment meaning "he turns (\ could turn) it more than most bowlers". Which, well... ain't true. Fingerspinners are fingerspinners.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's a throwaway comment meaning "he turns (\ could turn) it more than most bowlers". Which, well... ain't true. Fingerspinners are fingerspinners.

Trust me, I saw Maysie turn it as much as Warnie sometimes. Not as consistently but if there was one weapon Tim May was well-known for it was the amount of spin he put on the ball which out-stripped most wristies of the time.

 

[Richard]

How did he do that then? Was he some form of physical abomination? Or did most wristies of the time just not spin the ball as much as the archetypal wristie?

May's biggest spinner cannot spin as much as Warne's biggest. Or even come close. The human body simply doesn't work that way.

If May ever spun the ball as much as Warne, it was because Warne wasn't trying to spin it to the maximum extent.

 

[Top_Cat]

How did he do that then? Was he some form of physical abomination? Or did most wristies of the time just not spin the ball as much as the archetypal wristie?

May's biggest spinner cannot spin as much as Warne's biggest. Or even come close. The human body simply doesn't work that way.

If May ever spun the ball as much as Warne, it was because Warne wasn't trying to spin it to the maximum extent.

Well Warne and May played a couple of series together.

Tim May used his wrist as the term 'finger-spinner' is a bit of a mis-nomer. Plus he had this weird callous on his spinning finger which would crack and bleed a bit after a few overs. After that, he'd get grip and bite. Like I said, not as consistent as Warne but he'd come pretty close sometimes. May spun the ball more than any other finger-spinner I've personally seen.

A few examples and I saw May spin some more than this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU4mMymOm_A

 

[Richard]

Well Warne and May played a couple of series together.

Well... yeah, I know that. I watched some stuff from one of them earlier this very day, The Ashes 1993.

Tim May used his wrist as the term 'finger-spinner' is a bit of a mis-nomer. Plus he had this weird callous on his spinning finger which would crack and bleed a bit after a few overs. After that, he'd get grip and bite. Like I said, not as consistent as Warne but he'd come pretty close sometimes. May spun the ball more than any other finger-spinner I've personally seen.

So May wasn't a stock-in-trade fingerspinner, right, that makes a bit more sense now. BTW, the callous on the spinning finger isn't unique at all, James Laker had the same thing and I'm sure I've read about someone else of the same ilk too.

I've never taken all that much of a look at May's action, and I'll see if I can do sometime in future, sounds quite interesting.

A few examples and I saw May spin some more than this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU4mMymOm_A

Sadly that isn't working currently, so I must remember to try again later.

 

[Migara]

Trust me, I saw Maysie turn it as much as Warnie sometimes. Not as consistently but if there was one weapon Tim May was well-known for it was the amount of spin he put on the ball which out-stripped most wristies of the time.

The finger spinners I've seen spinning it most are Warnaweera (SL) and Rajesh Chauhan (IND). Latter did it at a pace of about 80k while the former did it bowling around 90-95k. Both spun it close to Muralitharan when they ahd favorable conditions. (Murali I think as a wrist spinner, so omitted him from finger spinners)

 

[NUFAN]

Mendis FTW.

 

[Richard]

Was going to bump this thread myself.

In Mendis' 3 genuine ODIs so far he's taken 10-39-3, 10-47-4 and 8-13-6.

I don't tend to make a habit of getting too excited about emerging players, so I'm not going to go waxing too lyrical. But you'll not see many better starts to an international career than that. And everything he's done at lower levels (Sri Lankan domestic cricket and against substandard ODI sides) backs-up the impression of a very, very seriously potent threat - and one who doesn't give especially large numbers of runs away.

At 23 he's just the right age, too, to be starting an international career. Easily young enough to have a decade at the absolute minimum ahead of him, not too young that you need to worry about burning him out.

Let's hope he can get stuck into Test cricket (he's surely about as certain to play SL's upcoming series given fitness as Murali is) as well as he so far has into ODIs. Murali and Mendis on a turning pitch - could we soon have a situation where we're asking "has there been such a deadly spin duo since Grimmett and O'Reilly?"?

(*Probably cue Mendis having a shocker and disappearing as quickly as he's emerged* But I can't shake the feeling that's pretty unlikely)

 

[Uppercut]

Mendis is something to get excited about.


I voted for Mishra because i think hes a vastly underrated bowler. Should surely be in the Indian team ahead of Chawla, who needs a few more years in first-class cricket IMO.

 

[tooextracool]

Was going to bump this thread myself.

In Mendis' 3 genuine ODIs so far he's taken 10-39-3, 10-47-4 and 8-13-6.

I don't tend to make a habit of getting too excited about emerging players, so I'm not going to go waxing too lyrical. But you'll not see many better starts to an international career than that. And everything he's done at lower levels (Sri Lankan domestic cricket and against substandard ODI sides) backs-up the impression of a very, very seriously potent threat - and one who doesn't give especially large numbers of runs away.

At 23 he's just the right age, too, to be starting an international career. Easily young enough to have a decade at the absolute minimum ahead of him, not too young that you need to worry about burning him out.

Let's hope he can get stuck into Test cricket (he's surely about as certain to play SL's upcoming series given fitness as Murali is) as well as he so far has into ODIs. Murali and Mendis on a turning pitch - could we soon have a situation where we're asking "has there been such a deadly spin duo since Grimmett and O'Reilly?"?

(*Probably cue Mendis having a shocker and disappearing as quickly as he's emerged* But I can't shake the feeling that's pretty unlikely)

His performance today is a little on the overrated side. He took the majority of his wickets that essentially did nothing and just went straight on and I fear that the Indians bought into the whole 'mystery' spinner thing when in fact all he did was bowl wicket to wicket with very little turn. I know hes hard to pick, but batsmen have got to start playing him as a very accurate medium pacer who bowls off and leg cutters until they can actually pick him as that is essentially what Mendis is. This whole situation sounds eerily familiar with Kumbles early years and its only when players started to play him as a medium pacer did they really score freely against him.

 

[Top_Cat]

His performance today is a little on the overrated side. He took the majority of his wickets that essentially did nothing and just went straight on and I fear that the Indians bought into the whole 'mystery' spinner thing when in fact all he did was bowl wicket to wicket with very little turn. I know hes hard to pick, but batsmen have got to start playing him as a very accurate medium pacer who bowls off and leg cutters until they can actually pick him as that is essentially what Mendis is. This whole situation sounds eerily familiar with Kumbles early years and its only when players started to play him as a medium pacer did they really score freely against him.

I guess if people think you can spin it both ways with a mere flick of your middle finger and can turn it on anything, the straight one is all you need! It's all Warnie had for the last 5 years of his career......

 

[Uppercut]

Indeed, as someone above me pointed out somewhere, he needs to improve his flighted delivery for when the mystery effect wears off. But the fact is he's only 23 and can bowl all sorts of difficult to pick variations accurately. Isn't that enough to get excited about?

 

[tooextracool]

I guess if people think you can spin it both ways with a mere flick of your middle finger and can turn it on anything, the straight one is all you need! It's all Warnie had for the last 5 years of his career......

well the thing is that his stock ball, well i guess he doesnt really have a stock ball so by stock ball i mean off break, doesnt really turn that much ITFP. Its not like Warne who turned his leg spinner around hairpin bends(and also turned his leg spinner to different extents) so when you played for turn and it went straight on you were essentially miles away from the ball and in no mans land.

I know its pure speculation, but if people treated Mendis as a bowler who essentially just bowled straight medium pace they would be better off until they are actually able to pick him. There were many many times today when the Indian batsmen played for turn that Mendis never got in the entire game. With the amount that Mendis turns it, if you play for the straight ball and it turns in either direction, at best it would hit the edge of the bat which isnt quite that bad if you played with soft hands.

 

[tooextracool]

Indeed, as someone above me pointed out somewhere, he needs to improve his flighted delivery for when the mystery effect wears off. But the fact is he's only 23 and can bowl all sorts of difficult to pick variations accurately. Isn't that enough to get excited about?

He clearly does and on the odd occasion that he tossed it up today he looked even more dangerous IMO.

 

[Top_Cat]

He clearly does and on the odd occasion that he tossed it up today he looked even more dangerous IMO.

Personally, that's the more interesting aspect of his game. He has all the variations but when he sticks to a stock ball, looks even better. It just depends on him now whether he gets lost in having a bazillion variations on his doosra or whether he just concentrates on bowling well.

 

[Richard]

Doesn't Mendis have the ability to bowl Leg-Break and Googly as well as Off-Break and Doosra though?

I'd presumed that was why there was so much excitement around him. If he's just a routine fingerspinner obviously he'll never rank up with the very best. Unless they start to leave wickets uncovered again.

 

[Prince EWS]

Doesn't Mendis have the ability to bowl Leg-Break and Googly as well as Off-Break and Doosra though?

I don't think I've seen him bowl a leg break, but he certainly has a wrist-spinning googly. I've also seem him bowl a genuine inswinger.

 

[Uppercut]

If he can bowl a googly you'd think surely he must be able to bowl a legbreak.