***Official*** English Domestic Season 2008

[Richard]

Wanted your opinion and not real life tbh. If I was talking about the England selectors, I'd probably add Harmison, Broad, Onions, Shreck and Chris Jordan.

O I C. Well yeah, I'd rate the lot of them (and TBH Broad too, much as he's very far from the finished article) ahead of Kabir Ali.

As for Onions and Shreck - well I hope not. Harmison, probably, but it'd be very interesting these days. They've both had a good start to the season (Kabir slightly better) but Harmison should have a large overdraft, but I'd not be surprised if he had credit.

Shreck has been poor this season (not unusually) and Onions has hardly played, and hardly set The World on fire when he has. I'd be highly disappointed if either were ahead of Kabir.

Another name, of course, is Mark Davies. Far more reliable than Kabir and seemingly almost as good as a wicket-taker.

 

[Richard]

Broad was in the middle of his GCSE's. Some folks were seriously touting 17 year old James Harris as next in line if we had another injury.

Think you might have those two mixed-up TBH.

 

[Richard]

Always thought that Kabir copped a bit more flack than he deserved for that one. He was hardly the only he send down a load of pies (in between taking 5 wickets @27), but everyone else was forgiven. And it was 5 years ago now.

Was there something beyond what we saw on TV that annoyed Vaughan?

I remember Robbins being particularly insistent on the "Vaughan obviously doesn't rate him" point. TBH, I never saw all that much, but captains get funny about some players some times. Often for no particular reason. If Vaughan truly has got the "gawd, I don't ever want to be captaining Kabir Ali in a Test again" mentality it's probably erroneous, but these things can be difficult to dispell.

 

[Perm]

Van Jaarsveld has truly completed one of the greatest performances by a single player in a match. 114 in the first innings where noone else scored over 26 followed by 5/33 of top and middle order batsmen and now 115* to take Kent home.

Indeed. Excellent performance by van Jaarsveld, I've thought it for a while now but it's an absolute shame he never played more Test cricket for South Africa.

 

[GIMH]

Jones in for Anderson is something i can definitely see happening in the second test.

Would suggest Flintoff in for Broad for 3rd/4th if his recovery goes to plan.

If we ended up with Flintoff/Jones/Sidebottom/Panesar come the end of the series it would be our best bowling attack for a very long time.

Was desperate for Flintoff to play the second from a personal POV (that's the one I am attending) but it looks unlikely. Would settle for Jones though, big time.

As for the Flintoff-Jones-Sidebottom-Panesar, for me, on paper, that is an attack that could give the 05 a run for its money

 

[wpdavid]

Think you might have those two mixed-up TBH.

No, it was just a poor attempt to say that Broad was too young to be considered at the time which ended up looking even poorer when I went on to talk about the even younger Harris. But I do recall a discussion last June along the lines of how many more injuries would it take for Harris to come into contention.

 

[wpdavid]

I remember Robbins being particularly insistent on the "Vaughan obviously doesn't rate him" point. TBH, I never saw all that much, but captains get funny about some players some times. Often for no particular reason. If Vaughan truly has got the "gawd, I don't ever want to be captaining Kabir Ali in a Test again" mentality it's probably erroneous, but these things can be difficult to dispell.

MR did that occasionally - I remember him saying much the same about Hussain and Tudor after one of the SL tests in 2002.

I know Kabir has done some truly horrible things in ODIs, but I hope that doesn't mean him being written off as a test player IF his performances this year have been as good as his figures suggest.

 

[TT Boy]

Worcestershire seems to be protecting Jones pretty nicely thus far. Doesn’t bowl long spells, hardly gets a gig when the batsmen are in and is brought back to ruffle the tail out most of the time.

He probably needs to be tested a bit more before England should take a punt on him, West Indian series next year would be good reintroduction for him.

 

[steds]

Going back to the WI series last year, we were almost struggling to name an attack though. At that stage everyone had forgotten about Sidebottom, about half of the people on my list were injured (from memory Hoggard, Fred, Jones, Tremlett & Anderson), Harmison could barely hit the cut strip, Onions wasn't in the Durham side, Kabir wasn't doing much and Broad was in the middle of his GCSE's. Some folks were seriously touting 17 year old James Harris as next in line if we had another injury.

Doing his GCSE's at 20 years old. Interesting.

 

[wpdavid]

Harmison, probably, but it'd be very interesting these days. They've both had a good start to the season (Kabir slightly better) but Harmison should have a large overdraft, but I'd not be surprised if he had credit.

Has Harmison's season been that great? Without checking the overall stats, the scorecards have struck me as OKish but nothing we'd be talking about if he was a newcomer. But it would be very interesting to know what Miller & Moores really think about him and what they want him to do before selecting him again. OTTOMY I'd have thought that Kabir's figures this year are way better, albeit in Div 2.

Shreck has been poor this season (not unusually) and Onions has hardly played, and hardly set The World on fire when he has. I'd be highly disappointed if either were ahead of Kabir.

True. I was probably basing my earlier comments on Onions' very good first couple of games rather than the whole season to date.

Another name, of course, is Mark Davies. Far more reliable than Kabir and seemingly almost as good as a wicket-taker.

Until this season. Unless he's injured again, that is.

 

[TT Boy]

Was desperate for Flintoff to play the second from a personal POV (that's the one I am attending) but it looks unlikely. Would settle for Jones though, big time.

As for the Flintoff-Jones-Sidebottom-Panesar, for me, on paper, that is an attack that could give the 05 a run for its money

Fair chance if that attack took the field Sidebottom would end up bowling double the amount of overs of both Jones and Flintoff. Good thing about Broad is that his a workhorse, Jones and Flintoff without a four seamer is too much of a luxury (and indeed liability) to my mind.
Would love to be proven wrong for as you say on paper that's a good attack.

 

[wpdavid]

Fair chance if that attack took the field Sidebottom would end up bowling double the amount of overs of both Jones and Flintoff. Good thing about Broad is that his a workhorse, Jones and Flintoff without a four seamer is too much of a luxury (and indeed liability) to my mind.
Would love to be proven wrong for as you say on paper that's a good attack.

All true. My thoughts, in no particular order:
1. Jones & Fred as part of a 4-man attack raises questions over whether we should play a spinner in every game.
2. We really need to be getting more overs from our part-time bowlers. Talking of which, what on earth happened to Bell's bowling?
3. I wonder how long it will be before we're looking at a keeper batting at 6 followed by Fred, Broad, & the other 3 bowlers.

 

[Scaly piscine]

If England want to ever seriously threaten the likes of Australia they need something a 4 seamer attack like Flintoff-Jones-Sidebottom/Hoggard-Broad/Harmison as the starting point of the team. Anything else and you may as well just give a press conference saying "we're looking to be mediocre for the next few years"

 

[Richard]

No, it was just a poor attempt to say that Broad was too young to be considered at the time which ended up looking even poorer when I went on to talk about the even younger Harris. But I do recall a discussion last June along the lines of how many more injuries would it take for Harris to come into contention.

Any selectors who pick a 17-year-old for international cricket are stupid - England selectors more so than ever.

 

[Richard]

Worcestershire seems to be protecting Jones pretty nicely thus far. Doesn’t bowl long spells, hardly gets a gig when the batsmen are in and is brought back to ruffle the tail out most of the time.

He probably needs to be tested a bit more before England should take a punt on him, West Indian series next year would be good reintroduction for him.

... again.

 

[Richard]

If England want to ever seriously threaten the likes of Australia they need something a 4 seamer attack like Flintoff-Jones-Sidebottom/Hoggard-Broad/Harmison as the starting point of the team. Anything else and you may as well just give a press conference saying "we're looking to be mediocre for the next few years"

If Harmison plays Test cricket again that's one of the best ways to give a press conference saying "we're looking to be mediocre for the next few years". Broad playing at the current time is, obviously, a good way to suggest you're looking to be mediocre at the current time.

 

[Richard]

We really need to be getting more overs from our part-time bowlers. Talking of which, what on earth happened to Bell's bowling?

Bell and Pietersen should obviously be bowling more - if they get the chance. The success of the front-liners in recent times means they won't, but with a four-man attack when no-one is threatening, both should be bowling a fair bit.

 

[Manee]

I know Kabir has done some truly horrible things in ODIs, but I hope that doesn't mean him being written off as a test player IF his performances this year have been as good as his figures suggest.

Furthemore, and I have said this many times, Kabir is a different bowler since his last England stint. New action, lower arm and much quicker.

 

[open365]

Was desperate for Flintoff to play the second from a personal POV (that's the one I am attending) but it looks unlikely. Would settle for Jones though, big time.

As for the Flintoff-Jones-Sidebottom-Panesar, for me, on paper, that is an attack that could give the 05 a run for its money

If Jones was anywhere near close to what he was in 05 I think that attack is actually better, Panesar is definitely better than Giles and Sidebottom atm is performing better than Hogard did for a large part of his career I reckon.

 

[open365]

Furthemore, and I have said this many times, Kabir is a different bowler since his last England stint. New action, lower arm and much much quicker.

He's not at all, i've seen him bowl in the old days and I've seen him bowl this and last season, he bowls pretty much identical to what he allways has done and largely produces the same results, he's not an England prospect and shouldn't be considered one atm.