India All Time XI

[bagapath]

it is going to be tricky to set the cut off points

i suggest we keep 750 runs and 50 wickets for anyone who debuted before world war II (1939 cricket season) and 2000 runs and 100 wickets for anyone who started after. correspondingly the batting average's cut off can be 30 for pre world war and 40 for post world war.

i can make a list of probables if this is okay...

 

[weldone]

I am proceeding with my order; and the elligibility criteria I am keeping as 30 innings for batsmen and 60 wickets for bowlers for providing a wider choice to members for voting...

 

[weldone]

Poll for openers is on another thread...Vote for 2 openers there...Poll will be open for 7 days...

 

[weldone]

Vote for 2 opening bowlers in the other thread...Poll will be open for 7 days...

 

[weldone]

Vote for a spinner in the other thread...Poll will close after 7 days...

 

[weldone]

Vote for 3 middle-order batsmen in the other thread...Poll will close in 7 days...

 

[Richard]

My order will be:

2 Openers
2 Fast bowlers
1 wicket keeper
1 all-rounder
1 spinner
no.3
no4 and no.5
4th bowler - could be a spinner or a fast bowler or runner up from all rounder poll

Why not:
2 openers
4 middle-order batsmen
1 wicketkeeper-batsman
4 bowlers, whose batting should be considered if neccessary
?

So much easier to get the best team that way.

 

[bagapath]

this will limit your team to one spinner only considering you are not choosing an allrounder. a typical 4 man attack is 3 pacers and one spinner. whereas if you have an all rounder in the ranks, you may try to get 3 pacers and 2 spinners into your XI. this being India it is all the more important that you bank on your spinners. also, i always prefer 5 bowlers for a test XI since taking 20 wickets is the only way to push for a win

 

[Richard]

Why is it more important for any team to consider so much as a thing apart from picking your best possible team?

I don't care what the makeup is as long as I get the best combination. The only essential positions that cannot be done without are opening-batsmen and wicketkeeper-batsman IMO.

 

[weldone]

From votings till now, Tendulkar, Dravid and Hazare are leading as middle-order batsmen...Gavaskar is leading for the opener's slot...It's likely to be Sehwag who will be up against Merchant in a separate poll to select the 2nd opener...The spinner's poll is very close and undecided till now between 3-5 spinners...

However, the opening bowlers' poll has taken an absurd turn and Kapil and Srinath are leading with equal votes...Unless and until one of them has a lead, it's not possible to decide who will be up against Nissar and Amar Singh for the selection of the second new ball bowler...If they end up with equal votes, then the 4 of them will be in a separate poll to select 2 among them...

The poll for the no. 6 will start soon, along with some other polls like popular demand polls and batting order polls...

 

[weldone]

The popular demand poll to select 2 new ball bowlers is on between Kapil, Srinath, Nissar and Amar...Poll will close after 3 days...

 

[bagapath]

Why is it more important for any team to consider so much as a thing apart from picking your best possible team?

I don't care what the makeup is as long as I get the best combination. The only essential positions that cannot be done without are opening-batsmen and wicketkeeper-batsman IMO.

my scheme will give an opportunity for your choices. but your team will not allow me to choose an all rounder. i dont like to limit my choices, and others'

 

[Richard]

You can pick as many all-rounders as you want - as an example, if I was picking a ODI team of the 1970s and 1980s, I'd pick all three of Kapil, Imran and Hadlee. Likewise, if I was picking a post-1900 Test team I'd have all of Sobers, Miller and Imran.

Kapil would play for any Indian all-time team purely as a bowler, but he was an all-rounder, and I don't like the idea of excluding others like Vinoo Mankad just because you're told "pick ONE all-rounder". Pick as many as you think will make the best team IMO.

 

[weldone]

You can pick as many all-rounders as you want - as an example, if I was picking a ODI team of the 1970s and 1980s, I'd pick all three of Kapil, Imran and Hadlee. Likewise, if I was picking a post-1900 Test team I'd have all of Sobers, Miller and Imran.

Kapil would play for any Indian all-time team purely as a bowler, but he was an all-rounder, and I don't like the idea of excluding others like Vinoo Mankad just because you're told "pick ONE all-rounder". Pick as many as you think will make the best team IMO.

Yup, there are such provisions as well...If you have noticed, Mankad has been included in the openers' poll, Kapil has been included in the fast bowlers' poll, Shastri has been included in the spinner's poll...And many many other al-rounders have been included in other polls...In that way, if one wants to select more than 1 al-rounders there are provisions for that also...If my polls can be criticized for anything it's not because it provides too less options to voters in every aspect from team composition to everything, but that it provides too much of it...Whether that can be a point for criticism I don't know though...

 

[weldone]

Popular demand poll between Sehwag and Merchant to choose the opening partner of Gavaskar is on in another thread...

 

[weldone]

Gavaskar has won the opener's poll...Merchant is winning the poll for selecting the 2nd opener...Tendulkar and Dravid are leading as middle-order batsmen and it's mighty close between Hazare and Azharuddin for the other spot...Kapil and Srinath are leading the new ball bowlers' poll...In the spinner's poll, Kumble and Bedi are leading with same number of votes...Some other polls will be introduced today...

 

[weldone]

Poll for wicketkeeper-batsman is on in another thread...Poll will close in 7 days...

 

[weldone]

From votings till now, Kapil and Srinath have been selected as the two new ball bowlers; and Kumble as the spinner...The poll for selecting the 4th bowler is on in another thread...Poll will remain open for 7 days...

 

[SJS]

1. Gavaskar
2. Merchant
3. Dravid
4. Tendulkar
5. Hazare (RAMP)
6. Mankad (LAS)
7. Kapil Dev (RAFM)
8. Engineer
9. Amar Singh (RAFM)
10. Gupte (RALS)
11. Prasanna (RAOS)

12. GR Vishwanath​

With the two greatest Indian all rounders in the side, I am able to play five bowlers PLUS there is the medium pace of Hazare who was like hammond in quality.

Putting Mankad in makes the task of leaving out the greatest left arm spinner I have seen in almost fifty years of watching the game easier.

Prasanna and Gupte, added to Mankad, cover the entire spectrum of spin bowling with world class skills. I leave out Chandra because for me, while he could win games for you single handedly, he could also bowl very shoddy stuff in between and his terrible, terrible fielding makes it a bit easy to find an excuse to leave him out when you have an embarassment of riches as we have with spin in any all time India selection.

I prefer Gupte over Kumble because I think he was a better bowler on all types of wickets while Kumble has looked toothless on some surfaces and with Kapil, Amar Singh and Hazare, I thought I did not need another medium pacer

The tough choice was choosing between Amar Singh and Nissar. Nissar was clearly the faster bowler and I almost went ahead with him but Amar Singh was no slouch on the speed front and by all accounts was a very crafty bowler. His brilliant fielding and more than useful batting also helped me decide this tight one in a side traditionally considered weak on the field. Amar Singh could be expected to bolster the tail with some solid cricketing strokes of power.

I have left out both the great captains India has had, Lala Amarnath and Pataudi Jr. I would ask Dravid to lead the side. I think he is a better captain than Gavaskar the other main contender.

My one great regret, besides leaving out Bedi, is having to leave out GR Vishwanath. I would have him in the 12 and the side could play him if they felt, one less bowler would do on a particular track.

Last but not the least, I had a tougher time choosing between Sehwag and Merchant than many might suspect. I finally settled for Merchant since this is a Test side and I presume if this side had to 'hypothetically' confronted with another, it would be a similar all time side of, say, England or Australia. I suspect that Merchant might fare better against the wiles, guiles and skills of bowlers like Barnes, Trueman, Bedser and Verity or Lindwall, Lillee, O'rielly and Spofforth than Sehwag.

I realise I could be wrong but there is no way you can prove that can you

 

[Richard]

Reckon I'd go for Nissar ahead of Prasanna myself TBH. Apart from that, your reasoning is absolutely smack-on to me. Never known all that much about Vijay Hazare or Vinoo Mankad until very recently, but they were clearly superlative cricketers.