**Official** New Zealand in England

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I consider a Test class batsman someone who can average at least 35 in Test cricket. A Test class fast bowler is someone who can average under 30. I'm not convinced that any of the present crop are Test class. Ross Taylor and Jamie How have potential, but both still have some way to go. As for Redmond, Marshall and Flynn, they've done nothing to indicate that they are Test class, or likely to be any time soon.

And then there's McCullum, who has talent, undoubtedly, but is still unlikely to be an outstanding Test batsman as long as he's wicketkeeping. Given that he's a wicketkeeper-batsman, however, he's Test class, by my reckoning.

Being able to compete is not enough. Ganga was able to compete. He was never Test class.

 

[Richard]

Redmond and Flynn have done more than James Marshall, you've got to give them that though.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Barely.

 

[Flem274*]

I consider a Test class batsman someone who can average at least 35 in Test cricket. A Test class fast bowler is someone who can average under 30. I'm not convinced that any of the present crop are Test class. Ross Taylor and Jamie How have potential, but both still have some way to go. As for Redmond, Marshall and Flynn, they've done nothing to indicate that they are Test class, or likely to be any time soon.

And then there's McCullum, who has talent, undoubtedly, but is still unlikely to be an outstanding Test batsman as long as he's wicketkeeping. Given that he's a wicketkeeper-batsman, however, he's Test class, by my reckoning.

Being able to compete is not enough. Ganga was able to compete. He was never Test class.

Its early in the careers. For all we know they could average 50 or conversely, 9. Oram already averages 35 plus and I'm confident Taylor, How, Ryder and Fulton will manage 35 plus and there's a few others I think have potential. I'm unconvinced with Redmond but he's only played three tests. Marshall has always been rubbish.

Kyle Mills averages sub 30 iirc. Martin will be gone soon, Franklin averages sub 30. Southee should if he bowls to his potential. There's a couple of seamers in the emerging players tournament coming up shortly that look pretty good.

When they've actualy played a decent amount of tests then we'l judge. I realize I may be a bit biased but I think we need to show some patience with these players and give them a decent run.

 

[JBH001]

Ouch, glad I did not stay up to watch the game.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Its early in the careers. For all we know they could average 50 or conversely, 9.

Which is what I was saying. I just think it's likely to take longer for that potential to be realized, because NZ domestic cricket doesn't appear to be strong enough to fast-track that development.

Kyle Mills averages sub 30 iirc. Martin will be gone soon, Franklin averages sub 30. Southee should if he bowls to his potential. There's a couple of seamers in the emerging players tournament coming up shortly that look pretty good.

Well, there's clearly a lot more obvious Test-class talent in the bowling ranks for New Zealand.

When they've actualy played a decent amount of tests then we'l judge. I realize I may be a bit biased but I think we need to show some patience with these players and give them a decent run.

That's really what I said in my first post, though.

 

[Flem274*]

Which is what I was saying. I just think it's likely to take longer for that potential to be realized, because NZ domestic cricket doesn't appear to be strong enough to fast-track that development.

Well, there's clearly a lot more obvious Test-class talent in the bowling ranks for New Zealand.

That's really what I said in my first post, though.

Ah

Carry on then.

 

[Bahnz]

As for Redmond, Marshall and Flynn, they've done nothing to indicate that they are Test class, or likely to be any time soon.

Flynn's concentration and determination saved us from losing the first test, and he was one of only 2 players to show any kind of determination and graft in the second innings of the final test, before nerves, poor light and inexperience combined to get him out. I think he's shown plenty to suggest he'll be a good test batsman. Of course, ideally, he wouldn't be playing for a year or two yet, but desperate times...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Flynn's concentration and determination saved us from losing the first test, and he was one of only 2 players to show any kind of determination and graft in the second innings of the final test, before nerves, poor light and inexperience combined to get him out. I think he's shown plenty to suggest he'll be a good test batsman. Of course, ideally, he wouldn't be playing for a year or two yet, but desperate times...

It takes more than concentration and determination to make a Test class batsman. They certainly help, but I'm far from convinced.

 

[Bahnz]

It takes more than concentration and determination to make a Test class batsman. They certainly help, but I'm far from convinced.

He showed good technique too, playing the ball late and knowing where his off stump was, which you couldn't say for anyone else in the top order.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

He showed good technique too, playing the ball late and knowing where his off stump was, which you couldn't say for anyone else in the top order.

Decent technique, yes. Which all suggests that he can survive at Test level. A batsman needs to score runs though, and that's where I'm not yet convinced.

 

[Bahnz]

Decent technique, yes. Which all suggests that he can survive at Test level. A batsman needs to score runs though, and that's where I'm not yet convinced.

Indeed he does...we'll just have to wait and see how things go in that respect, and hope no one tries to manufacture an opener out of him while he's still learning.

 

[Flem274*]

It takes more than concentration and determination to make a Test class batsman. They certainly help, but I'm far from convinced.

Mark Richardson

I'm sure it will surprise everyone to hear that I agree with Bahnz about Flynn

Though actualy, it is surprising that Bahnz and I have been agreeing lately, not something I ever though would happen.

Oh and another for good luck

 

[Flem274*]

Indeed he does...we'll just have to wait and see how things go in that respect, and hope no one tries to manufacture an opener out of him while he's still learning.

Haha, you know whats going to happen next don't you?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Mark Richardson

Mark Richardson can't be used as precedent, because there was hardly a precedent for him in the first place. He's an unusual case. Remember that Richardson also proved that he could score runs before he stared doing so for New Zealand. Flynn, still young, has done a lot less.

 

[aussie]

The England ODI side seems to have its best blend of players for the first time since 2002 i reckon.

Once Flintoff is back a very solid Champions trophy side is in the making. Only worry is the opening position no way should Wright be opening with Bell, again i suggest Prior regardless of the harsh generalisation over his glovework. Hopefully he can improve that since i wouldn't mind having Ambrose in test & Prior in ODI's.



But it is a worry that no other domestic batsman seems capable of opening now that Tres is out.

My potential best ODI team: (Prior opening)

Bell
Prior
KP
Bopara
Collingwood
Shah
Flintoff
Mascarenhas/Broad - depending on conditons
Swann
Sidebottom
Anderson

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

What has Prior done with the bat in OD cricket to deserve a recall?

 

[aussie]

Nothing, but due his faulty glovework he hardly got a chance to prove himself fully @ the top of the order after last summers ODI's due to his faulty gloveworkin SRI.(which i maintain again has been harshly ridiculed).

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

So, 3-2 to NZ

 

[NZTailender]

Wasn't a nice scorecard to wake up to, tbh.