Do England have a good enough team to win the Ashes next year ?

[Richard]

Isn't it about time we had one "build-up to The Ashes" thread rather than these new ones popping-up regular-ish?

Also, when is the subforum (presuming we're having another one this time) being started? Must be pretty soon?

 

[Richard]

Isn't it about time we had one "build-up to The Ashes" thread rather than these new ones popping-up regular-ish?

Just FTR - I mean threads such as these ones shown here.

 

[GIMH]

Isn't it about time we had one "build-up to The Ashes" thread rather than these new ones popping-up regular-ish?

Also, when is the subforum (presuming we're having another one this time) being started? Must be pretty soon?

Aye, seem to remember that the last one came about around March 06, so reckon we'll see this one in a few months

 

[tooextracool]

I'd say the key for England is to have 2 out of the three of (Flintoff, Jones and Pietersen) to have excellent series if they wanna have any chance of winning.

AUstralia simply have better players at their disposal than England......England's only chance is for their stand out players (the 3 guys aforementioned) to have a blinder of a series.

I cannot understand how this current Australian side has better players at their disposal. There are only a handful of players in the current Australian side that are certainities in the side. Out of which Ponting is going to be nearly 35 while Hayden is going to be nearing 38 next summer and the batting essentially revolves around these 2. As far as the Australian bowling attack is concerned, my thoughts stand exactly where they did before the India tour, they are nothing more than very ordinary and the fact that Shaun Tait(please not him again) is still considered to be first in line as a replacement only goes to show how deep those reserves are.

 

[tooextracool]

This could be a defining moment in KP's career - if he's going to be the all time great that many think he will, he needs to perform at the big moments and next year's Ashes will be one of them.

However, that is exactly what was said about him before his last 2 Ashes series. Pietersen's problem is not scoring runs against Australia, it is about scoring runs against everyone else.

 

[tooextracool]

Also, XXX mints have now been banned, which means England won't get any reverse swing (which they haven't got since 05 anyways).

Might have something to do with the fact that the chief perpetrator of reverse swing hasnt played a game since then.
Even so, Anderson has certainly reversed it a fair few times as far back even as Adelaide in the last Ashes.

 

[tooextracool]

Tipping Ali Cook for a big one too. As I said last time, if England gets good starts from their openers, Punter's lack of Plan B tends to hurt. Without those great starts, I think the Aussies will dominate.

I am surprised that you expect big things from Ali Cook. Granted that there is about a year till the Ashes and a lot can be changed in between, but i think it especially odd that a player who thus far has a penchant to play around his front pad as well as groping at deliveries outside the off stump would easily be eaten up by the likes of Stuart Clark (as it was last time around). I really do wonder how someone with a technique as rubbish as Alistair Cook has managed 7 test match centuries. Perhaps a lot of dropped catches in many of them has something to do with that. The lad has great concentration skills but his technique really needs a look in.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, of course we do, duh

Noone thought we had a chance at this point in 04 either tbh (I wasn't at CW at the time, but in real life that was consensus). Get the batting to click, the attack we could potentially field could well be better than the Aussies if Simon Jones continues his rehabilitation and Andrew Flintoff gets fit. These are big ifs though; those two were key to us winning the Ashes last time and the Aussies are a little weaker than they were, so, yeah, in all honesty I feel we have a chance if we get some luck on the injury front.

The thing is, if Flintoff and Jones do get fit which at least in the latter case seems more likely than at any point before, England will have to choose from Anderson, Hoggard, Sidebottom, Tremlett, Broad, Flintoff, Jones and Harmison. These are of course big ifs but those reserves seem to be better than almost every country in the world bar India.

 

[tooextracool]

IMO, if Jones and Flintoff are fully fit and play for the entire series, I am completely confident that England will win. Unless Australia unearth's another Glenn Mcgrath or Shane Warne returns from retirement I am fairly confident about that. There were some very good batsmen on show in England last time and many of them were reduced to novices by the pair and I do not expect the likes of Symonds, Hodge, Katich or whoever else decides to make the trip to be able to cope with it. With regards to the bowling, I think the current bowling attack is even weaker than the one that carried Gillespie last time around and barring Clark and possibly Lee (who has failed miserably against England in all of 3 of his last Ashes series) I do not see where the rest of the firepower is going to come from. However, given that there is a year left till the Ashes, there is too much room for error to make a prediction at this point for almost anything can happen that can alter the respective starting lineups at Lords in 2009.

 

[roseboy64]

Don't get the Flintoff at 8 thing. Seven would be the lowest I'd play him and that's only if the keeper was a good bat.

 

[Top_Cat]

IMO, if Jones and Flintoff are fully fit and play for the entire series, I am completely confident that England will win. Unless Australia unearth's another Glenn Mcgrath or Shane Warne returns from retirement I am fairly confident about that. There were some very good batsmen on show in England last time and many of them were reduced to novices by the pair and I do not expect the likes of Symonds, Hodge, Katich or whoever else decides to make the trip to be able to cope with it. With regards to the bowling, I think the current bowling attack is even weaker than the one that carried Gillespie last time around and barring Clark and possibly Lee (who has failed miserably against England in all of 3 of his last Ashes series) I do not see where the rest of the firepower is going to come from. However, given that there is a year left till the Ashes, there is too much room for error to make a prediction at this point for almost anything can happen that can alter the respective starting lineups at Lords in 2009.

Different times, mate. Flintoff is gone, time to give up on the big comeback I think. Even if he comes back, 2005 was the culmination of a few years of solid bowling and in a year's time, there's no way he'll have that sort of form back. Jones is a possibility and if he's back, he'll be the danger man. I would think guys like Anderson and Sidebottom will need to be the ones to step up next year. The back-up isn't as aggressive and strong as it was in 2005 either.

The other thing is, England's batting was on-song for a long period before 2005 too. The English line-up just looks more fragile than it was back then. They're certainly less adventurous and if there was another big factor (aside from the bowling) that determined the course of the Ashes in 2005, it was the 400-in-a-day England regularly piled on. KP won't be able to play the same with less batting after him in the order and I reckon Collingwood and possibly Bell may well be gone by the time 2009 rolls around. Vaughan is a bit of an unknown quantity as he may well not even be fit.

Either way, this series can't hope to live up to the hype of the last one. That was a series against the two very best sides in the world at the time who were strong in both batting and bowling. Both sides appear considerably weakened with many question marks and it'll likely be less of showcase of outstanding skills but looks like it'll be a decent contest.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It depends on how much Australia regress.

 

[four_or_six]

Might have something to do with the fact that the chief perpetrator of reverse swing hasnt played a game since then.

And our chief mint-sucker is gone too, and is now chief ball-polisher at Somerset.

 

[iamdavid]

England have a thin chance of winning due to Australia's reliance on Clark and Lee with the ball. If one of them or both becomes injured, then Australia's bench strength will really be tested.

My thoughts exactly, at this stage a year out Australia look a fair bit better, however all it would take is an injury to one of those two (ala McGrath '05), to really shake things up.

 

[Goughy]

As an English fan Id take Ponting doing a Ryder rather than Lee and Clark getting hurt.

 

[Furbag]

As an English fan Id take Ponting doing a Ryder rather than Lee and Clark getting hurt.

Goughy has just christianed the phrased "doing a Ryder".

Unfortunately Ponting's Bourbon 'N Beefsteak days are over

 

[iamdavid]

Hmm but if Ponting goes down then Hussey, Clarke, Hayden, Katich, etc are capable of patching things up with the bat, however without one or both of Lee or Clark, the bowling looks very skinny.

 

[Manee]

My thoughts exactly, at this stage a year out Australia look a fair bit better, however all it would take is an injury to one of those two (ala McGrath '05), to really shake things up.

Indeed. Mitchell Johnson and Beau Casson do not seem like two to help lead an attack in the absence of Lee, Clark or both.

 

[tooextracool]

Different times, mate. Flintoff is gone, time to give up on the big comeback I think. Even if he comes back, 2005 was the culmination of a few years of solid bowling and in a year's time, there's no way he'll have that sort of form back. Jones is a possibility and if he's back, he'll be the danger man. I would think guys like Anderson and Sidebottom will need to be the ones to step up next year. The back-up isn't as aggressive and strong as it was in 2005 either.

The other thing is, England's batting was on-song for a long period before 2005 too. The English line-up just looks more fragile than it was back then. They're certainly less adventurous and if there was another big factor (aside from the bowling) that determined the course of the Ashes in 2005, it was the 400-in-a-day England regularly piled on. KP won't be able to play the same with less batting after him in the order and I reckon Collingwood and possibly Bell may well be gone by the time 2009 rolls around. Vaughan is a bit of an unknown quantity as he may well not even be fit.

Either way, this series can't hope to live up to the hype of the last one. That was a series against the two very best sides in the world at the time who were strong in both batting and bowling. Both sides appear considerably weakened with many question marks and it'll likely be less of showcase of outstanding skills but looks like it'll be a decent contest.

I think you seriously overrate the 2005 England side. That series was played by 2 mediocre teams that both made each other look brilliant by some shoddy batting(mostly by England) and mediocre bowling(mostly from Australia). As a result we ended up having a fantastic series despite the quality of cricket being essentially very poor. Players of the calibre of Geraint Jones, Marcus Trescothick, Andrew Strauss, Shane Warne, Brett Lee were allowed to score runs despite all of them at the time not being deserving of them.

Also, I do not follow how the England side was 'on song' before the Ashes. Granted that the entire team was on a high having comprehensively won all of their last 5 series, but seriously 3 of the players that had played crucial roles in those series were either retired or dropped in Butcher, Hussain and Thorpe. That was the entire middle order. And no matter how great it worked out on hindsight, having a middle order of Bell (who had played all of 1 test match until then), Pietersen (making his debut), Flintoff and Jones was plain madness at that or any time and should not have happened. Even Trescothick had a very ordinary 2004 until the series in SA and there were many calls for him to be dropped during that year, especially after the series in the WI. I cannot logically see how this lineup which has far more experience can possibly be considered worse than that one, and the only reason that the 2005 lineup actually succeeded was because Australia let them off the hook.

In regards to the bowling, yes, I dont think Flintoff will bowl as well as he did in 2005, but, as Langer mentioned not too long ago if he does play he is still one of the best fast bowlers going around and his mere presence in the side is likely to raise the intensity of all the other 10. A fit Flintoff may or may not happen, ditto Jones, but even if it is wishful thinking, I am fairly certain that if it did happen they will create some real problems for what is currently a very fragile Australian batting lineup. I dont really expect Anderson to do much, he will probably be as inconsistent as hes always been and he loses about as many games as he wins at the moment.

 

[Ikki]

Hayden/Ponting/Clarke/Hussey/Symonds....doesn't look fragile to me mate.