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Stuart MacGill announces his retirement

Mr Mxyzptlk

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It's very likely that Casson will go worse than (or as badly as) MacGill and therefore the West Indies will find it more difficult than the previous two Tests. But that's much more a reflection of how utterly useless MacGill was, as opposed to how capable Casson is.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The daft thing was that there were proven quality bowlers around at the time of the selection of most of them, who were ignored.

It was a simple case of trying to be "risk-taking" and seeing it backfire badly. As such things usually do.
Who were the bowlers they were up against?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Who were the bowlers they were up against?
The likes of Mark Ealham, Neil Killeen, Robin Martin-Jenkins. Proven quality all - proven far better than the Bresnans, Mahmoods, Plunketts etc. But because some clever-aess thought they were cleverer than the game itself, they decided Mahmood et al had more potential and hence picked them and found-out that they were some of the most useless ODI bowlers in history.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Symonds had an outstanding ODI record of performance and the ability to bowl a few, as well as outstanding fielding ability. Wasn't a HUGE risk.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Right, well Symond's over any other batsman that was performing well in the First Class scene at the time.
TBH, I can't immediately think who those might've been. Symonds' domestic record isn't outstanding, but it's not poor either.

Apart from Martyn (retired), Watson (injured), Clarke (selected before Symonds) and Hodge (injured) I can't think of anyone who obviously should've been picked ahead of Symonds in 2006/07.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The likes of Mark Ealham, Neil Killeen, Robin Martin-Jenkins. Proven quality all - proven far better than the Bresnans, Mahmoods, Plunketts etc. But because some clever-aess thought they were cleverer than the game itself, they decided Mahmood et al had more potential and hence picked them and found-out that they were some of the most useless ODI bowlers in history.
:laugh:

I'll agree with you on Mahmood, Plunkett and I have no idea who Bresnan is. I can't see how Ealham would be of much use at test level, but anyway...he was a decent one-day player from what I saw. I guess as much use as Mahmood at least. Robin's dad wrote some good books.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
TBH, I can't immediately think who those might've been. Symonds' domestic record isn't outstanding, but it's not poor either.

Apart from Martyn (retired), Watson (injured), Clarke (selected before Symonds) and Hodge (injured) I can't think of anyone who obviously should've been picked ahead of Symonds in 2006/07.
Symonds was first selected in 2004.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Symonds had an outstanding ODI record of performance and the ability to bowl a few, as well as outstanding fielding ability. Wasn't a HUGE risk.
ODI doesn't make a great test player. Compared to some of the more seasoned performers at first class level he was a risk. I didn't realise they had to be a huge risk to even get a mention.

In that case can someone explain to me how Trescothick, Vaughan, Anderson or Jones were HUGE risks?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
:laugh:

I'll agree with you on Mahmood, Plunkett and I have no idea who Bresnan is. I can't see how Ealham would be of much use at test level, but anyway...he was a decent one-day player from what I saw. I guess as much use as Mahmood at least. Robin's dad wrote some good books.
CMJ may be a better writer than RMJ is cricketer, but he can certainly bowl in one-day cricket, far better than most in this country can.

My comments were exclusively confined to one-day bowlers BTW. No mention of Tests, as Bresnan (thankfully) hasn't played any.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Symonds was first selected in 2004.
Yeah, and that was one of the most stupid pieces of selection in history, dropping Katich who'd just saved a Test.

Fortunately it fell flat on its face as it deserved to and Katich got the recall he deserved and scored as Symonds had never looked like doing.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, and that was one of the most stupid pieces of selection in history, dropping Katich who'd just saved a Test.

Fortunately it fell flat on its face as it deserved to and Katich got the recall he deserved and scored as Symonds had never looked like doing.
Maybe so, but it was a risk :happy:


Eventually it's paid off a bit.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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ODI doesn't make a great test player. Compared to some of the more seasoned performers at first class level he was a risk. I didn't realise they had to be a huge risk to even get a mention.
But Symonds had a decent first-class record and experience and success at some level of international cricket, so it was, theoretically less risky than an uncapped batsman.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
CMJ may be a better writer than RMJ is cricketer, but he can certainly bowl in one-day cricket, far better than most in this country can.

My comments were exclusively confined to one-day bowlers BTW. No mention of Tests, as Bresnan (thankfully) hasn't played any.
Right, I was getting confused as to how they were better test choices, although Mahmood etc weren't great.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Maybe so, but it was a risk :happy:


Eventually it's paid off a bit.
Nah, it didn't. It was a risk that fell flat on its face, as it 100% deserved to. It was only later (when it was less of a risk) that Symonds' selection paid-off, and even then it's only paid-off because he basically has immunity from an Umpire giving him out.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
But Symonds had a decent first-class record and experience and success at some level of international cricket, so it was, theoretically less risky than an uncapped batsman.
Theoretically yes, however each tie he was selected earlier in his career (except the first time) it was after not performing to any great level in previous tests while there were batsmen proven in first class cricket not getting a shot. A bloke that scores 200 gets dropped yet Symonds is continually selected...that's somewhat risky. As Richard mentioned, Katich was doing a decent job at Test cricket and got dropped, certainly was going better than Symonds when he started. These guys were still around in 2004.
 

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah, it didn't. It was a risk that fell flat on its face, as it 100% deserved to. It was only later (when it was less of a risk) that Symonds' selection paid-off, and even then it's only paid-off because he basically has immunity from an Umpire giving him out.
Hence my saying 'eventually it's paid off a bit'. Would have saved you at least a sentence!
 

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