**Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

Other way around. If a bowler has a good economy-rate, batsmen generally have to look to play shots that aren't there (as pottering along at 3.4-an-over for the entire innings won't do) and so as a result the bowler gets a good strike-rate without bowling all that many wicket-taking deliveries.

On the other hand, a good strike-rate by bowling wicket-taking deliveries won't help all that much in getting a wayward bowler a good economy-rate.

 

[social]

I believe that the two are closely connected. If a bowler takes wickets, he normally has a good economy-rate, as the opposition would take fewer risks against him. Don't underestimate the value of taking wickets in ODIs.

I'll return once Richard finishes his 13 page explanation

 

[wpdavid]

Anyway I'm guessing the line-up we'll be seeing in the opening game will be:
Cook
Wright
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Shah
Ambrose
Swann
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson

Hopefully Mascarenhas might get a gig sometime in the series. Ideally on a decent-size ground.

Also hope Swann can do better at home than he did on the pint-sized grounds in NZ.

Looks like that's what Moores has in mind. Trouble is that Wright's record when opening for England is somewhere beyond dire, whereas he's actually done quite well in the lower middle order. I'd prefer to see Bell opening with Bopara at 3.

The other problem with your lineup is the probable lack of fireworks from the lower order.

 

[aussie]

Completely ignore the pitches and conditions he played on which basically entailed 1 road (where he got a rapid 50), the odd typical flattish wicket and a few tough 'uns. His record would be more like a mid to high 20s average with ~100 SR if he'd been playing on a good cross-section of pitches.

Hmm interesting..

Completely ignore the role England need to fill which Mustard was selected to play in.
Suggest someone who's a proven failure in ODIs, a guy who averages 21 at a poor strike rate and isn't very good with the gloves. Essential worse than Mustard in everything.

Thats a bit unfair on Prior TBH. Until he was recalled last summer he really shoudn't have been picked for England. Last summer he was looking good but just wasn't making use of his decent starts, but by no means did he look out of place as an opener.

Mustard although a very aggressive & busy player definately has a chance to make a comeback in the future but he didn't totally convince me that he is the man to give England consistent starts now that Tresocthick is gone if persisted with.

On their keeping none are spectacular AFAIC, but of course many would condemn his glovework based on the mistakes he made in SRI but IMO i reckon a few have been a bit harsh on Prior.

 

[Richard]

I'll return once Richard finishes his 13 page explanation

5 lines did it fine.

 

[Richard]

Looks like that's what Moores has in mind. Trouble is that Wright's record when opening for England is somewhere beyond dire, whereas he's actually done quite well in the lower middle order. I'd prefer to see Bell opening with Bopara at 3.

I probably do too - but that simply leads to the probability of 64 for 1 after 20, which we all know will simply result in people harking after about 3 games for some useless strokeplayers who generally last 15 balls or less to replace them. Far from convinced about either of Bell or Bopara as one-day batsmen. Neither really have enough strokes.

The other problem with your lineup is the probable lack of fireworks from the lower order.

Well, leaving aside for the moment the fact that I'm never remotely in favour of leaving important batting in the hands of bowlers, Swann can smash the ball reasonably well. Mascarenhas has done remarkably well so far in his short ODI career too - so if he can get back in the side he and Swann could form a vaguely useful if-all-else-fails there. Obviously, too, there's the possibility of Flintoff to come back. And there's the very outside chance that Read might ditch the ICL and have his life-ban reduced to merely a while-you're-in-the-ICL ban. Though I'm not hopeful there, that's a long, long shot.

Most of the batsmen currently in range for ODIs in this country simply aren't good enough, though. I've already mentioned Bell and Bopara; have long had the same feeling about Shah, and likewise Collingwood. Even by these standards, of course, Wright is woeful. Rarely seen anyone who looks less like a batsman be selected to bat for England. And don't do yourself the disservice of thinking this is only as an opener (he's only batted there once anyway hasn't he?), it's the same everywhere despite his somewhat inexplicable success in his whole 3(?) innings so far down the order.

Pietersen is the only front-line batsman currently available who fits the bill well for ODI success. Afzaal would still be more than worth a shot for my money, but the same has been true for the last 7 years and still no doing.

 

[Richard]

Fulton gone, out for 57

NZ 113/1

FFS, after reaching a very handily placed 289 for 3 (Redmond 121, McCullum 60-odd) New Zealand have somehow contrived to lose 4 wickets in no time at all to David Wigley, who previously had something like 0 for 60 off 11 overs and is one of the worst bowlers I've ever seen who should never, ever have played 3 seasons of county cricket never mind 7.

 

[wpdavid]

Even by these standards, of course, Wright is woeful. Rarely seen anyone who looks less like a batsman be selected to bat for England. And don't do yourself the disservice of thinking this is only as an opener (he's only batted there once anyway hasn't he?), it's the same everywhere despite his somewhat inexplicable success in his whole 3(?) innings so far down the order.

I was mixing up the 50 over and 20 over games. Not deliberately, you understand - I honestly thought he'd played more than four 50 over games. Anyway:
- in 50 over games, he has indeed opened only once and made 0. In the 3 other games, he made 50, 24 and 47 at 131 runs per 100 balls faced.
- in 2020 games, he failed abysmally 4 times out of 5 when opening or batting at 3. Again, he did much better when coming in lower down the order.

Bit of a pattern, afaics.

 

[Richard]

Never like the idea of anyone trying to form a pattern involving OD and Twenty20 cricket. Never.

Anyway, at Wantage Road, New Zealand make a decent score of 329 for 8 at the close, but really there'll only be 2 people particularly satisfied. McCullum got 72 which obviously is far better than either 9 or a slap in the face, but him scoring was neither here nor there. Only Fulton (57) and Redmond (121) have really achieved something they badly needed to. As per quite often, real curate's-egg bowling figures too:

J Louw      17 8 23 2 1.35 (3w) 
DS Lucas    17 3 64 1 3.76 (5nb, 2w) 
RJ Logan    15 1 87 1 5.80  
DH Wigley   17 3 74 4 4.35  
JF Brown    19 6 46 0 2.42  
GG White     5 1 22 0 4.40

 

[BoyBrumby]

Averaging 23 is not 'Doing allright' as steds said, I'd go either Prior or Ambrose.

If Prior could actually catch I think he has the batting ability to settle the arguments once and for all. The trouble is he can't.

I haven't been overly impressed with Ambrose's batting so far actually, his keeping has been solid (which makes it infinitely better than Prior's) but I don't think the form he's shown in either discipline is enough to displace Mustard. Mustard's keeping has been (surprisingly, given the bad rap he came in with) tidy & his batting has shown promise, without being fully convincing, apart from in the tied 4th ODI in NZ. He'd done enough to get another go for the sake of continuity, if nothing else.

Prior as a specialist bat in the shorter form, anyone? More of a dasher than we have currently.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, his awesome one-day average for Sussex of 27 sure suggests he'd be wonderful there...

Want to know the best bit? Exclude the seasons of 2004 and 2005, and he averages less than 20 for Sussex.

What's even more incredible is that Prior is a proven failure in ODIs at the top of the order and STILL people want him recalled?

 

[steds]

Stuart Broad to open in ODIs. By far our best bat this summer.

 

[PY]

Slightly surprised people are ignoring Strauss as a possible opener in ODI.

I'd prefer him to Mr Wright on current form anyway.

 

[steds]

Kyle isn't qualified to play for us anyway.

 

[Richard]

Slightly surprised people are ignoring Strauss as a possible opener in ODI.

Haven't we seen enough of Strauss and how patently obviously not good enough for ODI cricket he is?

Last thing we need is ANOTHER Michael Vaughan situation.

It's incredible how all these awful batsmen can be advocated for selection and gain selection, while the third-best OD batsman in the country (Trescothick and Pietersen being the top two) hasn't got a look in for 7 years.

 

[GIMH]

If Prior could actually catch I think he has the batting ability to settle the arguments once and for all. The trouble is he can't.

I haven't been overly impressed with Ambrose's batting so far actually, his keeping has been solid (which makes it infinitely better than Prior's) but I don't think the form he's shown in either discipline is enough to displace Mustard. Mustard's keeping has been (surprisingly, given the bad rap he came in with) tidy & his batting has shown promise, without being fully convincing, apart from in the tied 4th ODI in NZ. He'd done enough to get another go for the sake of continuity, if nothing else.

Prior as a specialist bat in the shorter form, anyone? More of a dasher than we have currently.

I'd have him in our top six in the long-form before I did in the short form tbh

Kyle isn't qualified to play for us anyway.

 

[GIMH]

Who is the third best batsman Rich?

 

[Richard]

Usman Afzaal.

 

[aussie]

haha, i knew it. But that doesn't me i disagree with you just that i haven't followed Afzaal's career closely enough to make judgement of him. It is interesting how highly you & TEC do rate him though..

 

[Richard]

Afzaal has done nothing but score runs in one-day cricket for 10 of the last 11 years. Only once has he averaged under 30 for a one-day season; FFS, only 3 other times has he averaged under 40.

That's 6 seasons out of 11 averaging over 40, and averaging in the 30s for another 3 in between. What more is someone supposed to do? It's absolutely criminal some of the jokers who've been picked ahead of him in recent times.