Brendon McCullum - over-rated?

[GGG]

FFS Rich I don't care if the attack is the Waihi B under 14's XI, McCullum's innings in the IPL and his one against Bangladesh were some of the most impressive in sheer terms of destruction I've ever seen.

He lays a claim to being better than both Gilchrist and Tendulkar in terms of destroying his opposition when he gets going, does he show their class and skill? No.

He's like an Afridi, yet one of the worlds top keepers, and also is better with the bat.

McCullum really started to impress me with the bat in the final CH in early 2007, when he scored that less than a run a ball 70-80 score, guiding NZ to a brilliant win. That was the knock that proved to me he had more to him than just that highest gear. He has a responsible cricketer in him, its just whether he wants to let it out or not,

Exactly, if Dravid and Ganguly say it's the most impressive power hitting they have seen then it is good enough for me.

 

[howardj]

Just yesterday during a break in the Test, you had Atherton referring to McCullum as being of the same class as an Adam Gilchrist or Sachin Tendulkar (these were the exact names Atherton used).

That's just plain funny.

 

[Days of Grace]

Absolutely.

A lot of people look at the scores for that game and assume it was just another of his aggressive knocks on a small ground, but that was a very mature innings in which he at first provided support for Craig McMillan in a much needed partnership (we were 5 wickets down and more than 200 short of the target) and batted brilliantly with the lower order to see us home.

I rate that 86* at Hamilton the best innings I've seen him play in any form of cricket.

He also had a very knock supporting Jacob Oram vs. Australia at Perth.

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/249230.html

However, he only seems to play those supporting knocks when he is at no.7 and there is another established batsman going ape at the other end.

When up the order he seems to take the initiative himself. a.t.m. this seems to be working 2 or 3/5 times. Which is basically the same rate as Gilchrist does.

 

[GGG]

Yes, certainly. But I don't place any value on Twenty20 outside Twenty20, and I don't place Bangladesh (or Otago-vs-Auckland) as a ODI-standard game. I'm not saying McCullum is incapable of astonishing innings - I'm saying he's not an excellent ODI batsman. Because he's not. And some people seem to think he is.

If all that was being said about McCullum currently was "he can play some of the most astonishing innings you'll see from time to time" then I'd not consider people overrated him. But so much more is being said, stuff which is completely untrue at this moment in time.

Why do they use a different ball or bat in 20/20? You can knock the format all you like but to score 158 runs off 73 balls in any format makes it one of the best displays of power hitting ever.

 

[Richard]

How many times? I don't really care about whether something was the best piece of power-hitting ever. This is NOT all that people are lauding McCullum for. If it was then I'd be fine with it.

 

[GGG]

How many times? I don't really care about whether something was the best piece of power-hitting ever. This is NOT all that people are lauding McCullum for. If it was then I'd be fine with it.

That and the domestic game, a couple of games he won vs Australia, the fastest world cup 50, fastest state sheild 100, the smashing of england and bangladesh. It's just the fact that if he gets going no one in world cricket IMO is as explosive, sure he fails plenty of times but would you be surprised if he score the fastest test 100? scored 200 in a ODI? I wouldn't be.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I'd be very surprised if he stuck around long enough to score an ODI double hundred. This considering that no one has before. I just can't see McCullum, as he is now, having the discipline to do it. And yes, it does take discipline. Sure, you have to score quickly, but unless you're extremely lucky, you need discipline and smarts to finish the job and get to 200.

 

[GGG]

Yeah but he is still only 26, like you say just needs a lucky day. I know it hasn't been done yet but how many big hitters that have had he potential to do it have opened the batting in ODI's? Gilchrist, Jayasuriya...?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Need a lucky day to score 150+ in an ODI. Need an extremely lucky day to score 200+. Not impossible, but yea, McCullum would have to improve a fair deal before he's in the frame. But as you say, he's still young and will face a lot of poor bowling attacks on a lot of flat pitches in future.

I hope no one brings up his T20 158 as evidence that he's capable of an ODI double hundred, because that's a whole different monster.

 

[GGG]

Need a lucky day to score 150+ in an ODI. Need an extremely lucky day to score 200+. Not impossible, but yea, McCullum would have to improve a fair deal before he's in the frame. But as you say, he's still young and will face a lot of poor bowling attacks on a lot of flat pitches in future.

I hope no one brings up his T20 158 as evidence that he's capable of an ODI double hundred, because that's a whole different monster.

No, I have seen him in full flight enough times to know he has it in him, not saying he is going to do it, just saying it wouldn't surprise me, as it wouldn't if Jayasuriya or Dhoni do it.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

No, I have seen him in full flight enough times to know he has it in him, not saying he is going to do it, just saying it wouldn't surprise me, as it wouldn't if Jayasuriya or Dhoni do it.

Jayasuriya and Dhoni are more disciplined, dare I say superior, batsmen. Scoring a double hundred is not just about big hitting, I repeat. And unless the attack is particularly atrocious, I can't see McCullum, as he is now, sticking around long enough to do so.

I'm starting to believe that McCullum really is over-rated by a lot more people and a longer way than I thought.

 

[GGG]

Jayasuriya and Dhoni are more disciplined, dare I say superior, batsmen. Scoring a double hundred is not just about big hitting, I repeat. And unless the attack is particularly atrocious, I can't see McCullum, as he is now, sticking around long enough to do so.

I'm starting to believe that McCullum really is over-rated by a lot more people and a longer way than I thought.

What 34 balls

 

[Athlai]

You didn't see his 170 knock against Auckland, showed awesome discipline there, would've probably stuck out the 200 if he had more runs to chase. McCullum is the sort of player who can out hit anyone on his day, but those days are certainly not guaranteed. He is probably the most likely candidate for an ODI 200 out of the current batsman, but I really can't see it happening against one of the worlds better bowling attacks (SA, Aus, SRL, Ind, full strength Pak and Eng), yet eventually he's going to just slog his way to a hundred with 40 overs left in the match and he will have ample opportunity. Whether he has the nerve to carry on is the real question.

As for his S/R in ODI's this is due to his position down the order, if you look at his S/R at the top of the order only than it is far higher, in Tests he still only making his mark.

Personally I reckon it's not ridiculous to say he could be the next Gilchrist or Tendulkar (in ODI's, never Tendulkar in Tests) but it would be overrating him to say that he is the next Gilchrist or Tendulkar. He has potential, but a long path to walk until he can be added to the names of the greatest attacking players ever.

 

[GGG]

...I'm starting to believe that McCullum really is over-rated by a lot more people and a longer way than I thought.

me? I rate him as a batsman that when he gets going is as good as anyone at hitting boundries and scoring quickly, he is not a Gilchrist or a Dhoni with the bat, I doubt he will ever be consistant, proberby never have a decient average, is good behind the stumps. that is it.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

You didn't see his 170 knock against Auckland, showed awesome discipline there

I've seen Dwayne Smith play disciplined knocks in first-class cricket. Says nothing for his ability or likelihood to do so in Tests.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Personally I reckon it's not ridiculous to say he could be the next Gilchrist or Tendulkar (in ODI's, never Tendulkar in Tests) but it would be overrating him to say that he is the next Gilchrist or Tendulkar. He has potential, but a long path to walk until he can be added to the names of the greatest attacking players ever.

Somehow I managed to miss this bit on my first read of your post. But I certainly disagree on the point of Tendulkar. To say that is to do a huge disservice to how great an ODI player Sachin Tendulkar was and is. The man averages over 44 with 42 hundreds and 89 fifties. To say that McCullum can be the next Tendulkar is to say that he can be the best (or at least one of the top five best) ODI batsman of all-time. And I think that is over-rating his potential.

 

[Prince EWS]

That and the domestic game, a couple of games he won vs Australia, the fastest world cup 50, fastest state sheild 100, the smashing of england and bangladesh. It's just the fact that if he gets going no one in world cricket IMO is as explosive, sure he fails plenty of times but would you be surprised if he score the fastest test 100? scored 200 in a ODI? I wouldn't be.

The point many are making is that we don't care about that. We don't care if he can score a hundred in a domestic Twenty20 game once every ten bats if he can't score one against a proper attack in Test cricket. We don't care how explosive he is if he only averages 25 odd.

He's not only being rated as an explosive batsman, or we wouldn't take the slightest interest in his rating at all. He's being rated as a very good batsman based on said explosiveness even though it means very little in terms of how productive a Test batsmen he'll actually be. He's really done very little in Test cricket at all, and only performed well in First Class cricket for short periods - the very same First Class competition that James Marshall and Matthew Bell have dominated for the past two seasons and Mathew Sinclair has broken records in for almost a decade.

He's shown a lot of improvement in ODI cricket of late as an opening batsman and I will credit him for that. He's yet to really show anything in Tests though. He doesn't even have a ton against non-Ban/Zim opposition yet, so the way people talk about him when he strolls out there in whites is over-rating him beyond comprehension as a batsman.

 

[Flem274*]

McCullum has the talent to be a very good batsman. In ODIs he is just starting to show what he is capable of. In tests he hasn't found his feet yet. He will improve in tests with more experience I think. I rate him as a steadliy improving batsman who is definitely showing some destructive ability. I think in a couple of years we will have a better indicator of how far he has come.