**Official** New Zealand in England

[Spitfires_Fan]

Weather forecast is looking a bit dodgy over the bank holiday weekend although bizarrely, for once it looks like it'll be better the further north you go. So OT might get more play than Lords or the Oval would this time round.

Either way, it's gonna suck where I live

 

[Prince EWS]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Iain O'Brien's ****??









Rhetorical question?

I'm kind of with you.

He's been absolutely terrible at international level - it has been painful watching him bowl. His action looks shocking. However, I have little doubt that he's a better bowler than that judging by not only his excellent First Class record, but match reports and RadioSport commentary of First Class matches. I've never actually seen him bowl well, but I'd be surprised if what he's shown at international level is it as far as his bowling is concerned.

All that said, I don't think he should be ahead of Mason, Southee, Patel or Gillespie in terms of the test selection. I don't really believe he's as bad as most (including myself) like to make out though.

 

[Woodster]

Weather forecast is looking a bit dodgy over the bank holiday weekend although bizarrely, for once it looks like it'll be better the further north you go. So OT might get more play than Lords or the Oval would this time round.

Either way, it's gonna suck where I live

Nice and bright up in Manchester so far today, will be such a shame if the rain comes in tomorrow.

 

[Perm]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Iain O'Brien's ****??

Rhetorical question?

Compared to Michael Mason, he's not too flash, especially if it's a toss-up between the two for selection at Old Trafford.

O'Brien was nigh on useless against Kent, and in the game they played together, Mason outbowled his team-mate and picked up the scalps of some fine batsman on the way (Cook x2, Foster x2, Gallian, Pettini). Added to that, O'Brien seems to have very little control. Sure, he may be a little bit faster than Mason, but his accuracy is sorely lacking in comparison.

 

[aussie]

Nice and bright up in Manchester so far today, will be such a shame if the rain comes in tomorrow.

what part of city are you located sir?

 

[Woodster]

what part of city are you located sir?

I work in the City Centre, but live outside in the Stockport area. Where are you based mate ?

 

[Athlai]

Compared to Michael Mason, he's not too flash, especially if it's a toss-up between the two for selection at Old Trafford.

O'Brien was nigh on useless against Kent, and in the game they played together, Mason outbowled his team-mate and picked up the scalps of some fine batsman on the way (Cook x2, Foster x2, Gallian, Pettini). Added to that, O'Brien seems to have very little control. Sure, he may be a little bit faster than Mason, but his accuracy is sorely lacking in comparison.

Patel IMO, OT turns.

 

[Steulen]

Patel IMO, OT turns.

Big call to go into OT with two spinners, even against England, those renowned masters of playing spin.

Mason for mine, atm.

 

[Richard]

It is unreasonable to expect somebody to be a Test-class batsman right from the outset of their career, especially when they are chosen for Test cricket at such a young age. Clarke was only 23 when he scored 151 in Bangalore, and had already had a reasonable amount of success in ODI cricket before his selection, with his maiden century coming just a few months beforehand. He averaged over 60 in the few Pura Cup games he played in the 2003/2004 season, so he was making strides forward. Perhaps he was picked a little too early, but if it wasn't for his selection, success and then subsequent failure, then maybe he would not have been the Test batsman he is today. I wouldn't neccesarily say Clarke was blooded too early, because he certainly deserved the call-up even though his form fell away sharply after his first few games.

Would love to see him actually score some runs in County Cricket too, would be the next step in proving himself as a classy international batsman if he can dominate the English domestic scene.

I very much doubt the advances Clarke made in 2005/06 were any direct result of his Test failures TBH, he'd always been a batsman of promise. I don't think he deserved the call-up at all, really, in the likes of Love and Hodge there were more deserving options. There was also David Hussey, though being his first major season he was probably justifiably behind Clarke. Clarke himself played just 3 Pura Cup games in 2003/04, remember.

It's not unreasonable to expect someone to have 2 or 3 bad games early in their Test careers, no, but usually those who have an extended period of mediocrity tend to be those who are picked before they're ready, then later get better and play again with much-improved performance.

 

[Richard]

Patel IMO, OT turns.

Been through this a bit earlier - but it's dangerous to say, as-a-rule, that "ground X turns\seams\doesn't-do-whatever". The last 3 Tests at Old Trafford have produced pitches that have turned plenty, but so far this season (in the whole 2 games that've been played there) it's been the seamers who've dominated, completely.

That said, not surprised you'd go Patel TBH.

 

[Athlai]

Patel is New Zealand's next bowler so I reckon we should play him. Its a gamble but if we want to win then Patel's the better option, our spinners tightening the vice on England> Masons 2-3 wickets IMO.

 

[Richard]

Remind me of Patel and Mason's figures so far on tour again.

 

[Athlai]

1st match

Patel 81/0

2nd match

Mason 101/7

3rd match

Patel 194/2



1st match was a batting paradise, second side was the weakest, third side was pretty darn good. An additional factor is, that Patel seems to bowl better in tandem with Vettori, as neither bowler really lets the pressure off.

 

[Richard]

Well so far they've done that a whole 2 times - the second against England when yes, they did indeed do that very well and the first against South Africa when they emphatically did not.

 

[Athlai]

Actually Rich thats when Patel and Vettori's (1 for Patel 3 for Vettori) drops occurred. They bowled quite effectively TBH it was the fielding that let them down, and for the rest of the bowling only Martin really was up to standard. Tough tough tour, yet if England are looking to Panesar here we should look to attack with the double spinning option. This is a tour we have nothing to lose on and if it does pay off it could even end in a (dare I say it) victory for NZ.

 

[aussie]

I work in the City Centre, but live outside in the Stockport area. Where are you based mate ?

Live in Manley Park, but i am found liming regularly in hood near by wear the United & Citeh training grounds are & i'm in my last year @ MGS.

 

[FBU]

That was at Lord's. They constantly padded-up (and much of it was tailenders there anyway) in the First Test to balls that didn't turn, and never turned all match, but in the Third it actually did turn and he took, rather than was gifted, the wickets.

You're right. I got mixed up with the grounds.

 

[Tim]

Looks like Southee is going to be passed fit, so an unchanged lineup as well for NZ.

Personally I like the look of this side in the long term. Only Chris Martin could potentially retire in a few years (jn terms of age) so there's plenty of time for the rest of the team to develop together. The only problem I have is James Marshall, I'm hoping Fulton gets it together or someone like Greg Hay can fill that spot in the near future.

 

[howardj]

What's the weather forecast for this thing?

 

[Blakey]

Looks like Southee is going to be passed fit, so an unchanged lineup as well for NZ.

Personally I like the look of this side in the long term. Only Chris Martin could potentially retire in a few years (jn terms of age) so there's plenty of time for the rest of the team to develop together. The only problem I have is James Marshall, I'm hoping Fulton gets it together or someone like Greg Hay can fill that spot in the near future.

Who's your pick to replace Martin in a couple of years?