The Road to the 2009 Ashes

[GIMH]

I wonder who our Aussie will be. Get Warney in the box IMO

 

[pasag]

Nine aren't going to make the same mistake twice.

 

[Richard]

I wonder who our Aussie will be. Get Warney in the box IMO

Could do worse I guess. I'd prefer Michael Slater tho. Trouble is, he's a Nine man these days and I'm not sure if Fox would bar him.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah I would love Slats again

 

[Burgey]

Hmm, disagree completely about Hussain TBH. Hussain's a far better commentator than Atherton for my money. And there's no way he's bitter in the slightest - he himself chose to step down from the team, when he could easily have still been around the shake-up for the 2005 series. But he thought it was best for the team to take a difficult decision out of the hands of those who'd otherwise have been responsible, and full credit to him for that.

Not particularly a massive fan of Gower and Botham or anything, but they're part of the furniature. Sky Sports cricket would not feel right without them, to me. Ditto Bumble. He's given to buffonary, but that's all part of the package.

BTW, the chances of a different commentary team are zero. I just hope Bob Willis and Paul Allott get their due and have the chance to join in. Willis, Allott, Gower, Botham, Lloyd, Atherton, Hussain would be the dream-team for me, unless they can actually get a decent Australian commentator in, which their usual catch (Jeff Thomson) emphatically is not. Trouble is, the best lot are all contracted to Nine - don't know whether Nine even have highlights these days, but if they do obviously Fox pick-up the Sky feed so therefore they won't be able to do anything for Sky as it'd be rival broadcasters.

Never been much of a fan of Michael Holding being part of Sky teams for non-WI series either. Not that he's a poor commentator, just seems really odd having a complete neutral in the chair.

Certainly agree with you about Thommo - appalling commentator imo.

I think 9 will grab the rights this time around - after last time, it should rate it's proverbial off.

 

[Richard]

Actually, thinking about it, Sky had Greg Blewett and Darren Lehmann in 2005 IIRR. Barely watched anything on Sky that summer as it was all C4.

Sounded ridiculous, Boof is a complete non-natural with the mic anyway and while Blewett wasn't the worst he certainly wasn't anywhere near as good as Slats and neither of them gave the suggestion that they should be behind the mic when still playing. It was like having a couple of schoolboys taking to the Test team.

 

[Laurrz]

"If Australia really needed me and there was no one else around, and Ricky [Ponting] thought I could do the job, you would weigh up the options."
Shane Warne dangles a tantalising carrot by suggesting he could return, if asked, for the 2009 Ashes

"I'm not giving any interviews about how we're going to do against Australia."
Kevin Pietersen is staying clear of all pre-Ashes mind games and clichéd sound bytes, with the showpiece event only a year away



loll

 

[Richard]

"If Australia really needed me and there was no one else around, and Ricky [Ponting] thought I could do the job, you would weigh up the options."
Shane Warne dangles a tantalising carrot by suggesting he could return, if asked, for the 2009 Ashes

Aww, WTF? What's the point of retiring then reappearing? Worst tactic.

"I'm not giving any interviews about how we're going to do against Australia."
Kevin Pietersen is staying clear of all pre-Ashes mind games and clichéd sound bytes, with the showpiece event only a year away

Well done.

 

[Burgey]

"If Australia really needed me and there was no one else around, and Ricky [Ponting] thought I could do the job, you would weigh up the options."
Shane Warne dangles a tantalising carrot by suggesting he could return, if asked, for the 2009 Ashes

"I'm not giving any interviews about how we're going to do against Australia."
Kevin Pietersen is staying clear of all pre-Ashes mind games and clichéd sound bytes, with the showpiece event only a year away



loll

Give KP 3 months. He'll blurt something out.

Warne said the same thing at the start of last summer out here. Can't see it happening.

 

[andruid]

You heard it here first Ricky Ponting and Micheal Vaughan to retire at the end of the 2009 Ashes.

 

[Richard]

Very much doubt it in Ponting's case but Vaughan TBH I'd possibly be in favour. Depends on his knees, obviously, but if they're starting to feel remotely dodgy again I can't think of a better way for him to go than after an Ashes (hopefully a victorious one with him scoring lots and captaining the winning side).

 

[oitoitoi]

I'm pretty sure Ponting wants to captain Australia in the next world cup though what I think will really determine the date of his retirement will be how many runs and hundreds Tendulkar hits. Ponting wants those records and he wants them badly. That said I think Tendulkar intends to play on till the next world cup, he's often said it's his dream to lift the world cup and to do it in Mumbai (that's where the next final is) would be a boyhood fantasy for him. It's going to be an interesting endurance contest between the two.

Vaughan has said that he wants to bow out on the next tour to Australia, to be seen whether his form and/or his body will hold up though. Also a bad loss in 2009 could hasten his exit.

 

[Richard]

Very silly of Ponting to play on to try and break those records, IMO. Obviously I don't know for certain if he actually does, but he should play on only as long as he feels he is one of the best six batsmen in Australia for my money. No longer.

Obviously if he wants to let someone else take the decision for him, that's his choice too. But they probably would do if forced to.

 

[The Masterplan]

2009 ashes.. Simon Jones...

 

[Richard]

Still think it's exceptionally unlikely, but the chances are obviously better as of this post than they were a month ago.

 

[Burgey]

I think Ponting's back injury may do for his career in the medium term.

It seems to be troubling him more frequently than previously, and tbh if he captains a winning tour to India and a winning Ashes side in England, I dunno how much more there is for him to achieve.

 

[Richard]

ITSTL, hadn't heard much of that.

 

[DaRick]

Sorry this has taken so long, seems to have completely slipped off my radar...

Mine as well...

If anything, I think West Indies have had some better players of spin in more recent times than they did in the late-1980s. Lara, Chanderpaul and Adams were the best, of course, but Sarwan is excellent too, and Bravo and Ramdin have been pretty decent for my money.

I'll take Lara, Chanderpaul (although, truth be told, Chanderpaul's ability against pace and spin is comparable, IMO) and Sarwan, but Jimmy Adams (?) was noted for his defensiveness against the spinners - hardly a quality of a great player of spin. I do remember Bravo playing Shane Warne well in Hobart. However, bringing somebody like Denesh Ramdin up, is, for mine, scarcely more credible than me bringing Brett Lee up as an example. Ramdin's a specialist wicketkeeper if I've ever seen one and only a slightly more effective batsman than Lee, in general.

Ineptitude against the turning ball is different to ineptitude purely against the ball delivered slowly, though - and you've got to be truly abysmal to have the latter. And this really was what West Indies (in some proportion tailenders) were doing - the ball wasn't turning, and they were playing for the turn, against standard break deliveries that never turned all match. Inexplicable.

Wait...doesn't this more or less indicate the West Indies' ineptitude against spin in general, though? AFAIK, there are no bowlers in the international game who are classified as 'Right Arm Slow' (Allan Langer was in a tribute game, although probably more as a piss-take). Thus, the only slow bowlers would be spinners.

Sorry, I've been pretty busy recently. Can't put a timescale on it, but I promise it will be done someday - just stay on CW, and one day you'll have it.

...still waiting.

West Indies had no troubles with Giles (and this was almost all the same players) in the 5 other Tests on non-turning pitches they faced him on, though. There were some poor batsmen in there, but they still handled Giles easily when it wasn't turning.

I don't recall those Tests right now, for some reason...

Yes, indeed - cases need to be examined on an individual basis. But still, mostly 3-150 will be a worse performance than 2-80.

Well, I suppose so.

Malcolm's was every bit as bad on most of his occasions. There was a very brief interlude in early 1990 (the series in West Indies and the home one against New Zealand) where his control improved and he took bagfuls of wickets. But from the second half of 1990 onwards, he reverted to type, with just the odd breakout (most notably that game in 1994).

Anyway, none of that this matters overtly. 'Twas just a for instance, I could probably have used a better example.

Yeah, you could have. The main reason why I didn't compare Malcolm to Patterson Thompson was that Malcolm's economy rate, while poor, didn't match Thompson's 'exploits' against the Australians (at international level, or indeed, during a 1995 first-class game in the West Indies). Steve Waugh, of all people, also drew comparisons between Malcolm and Nantie Hayward.

 

[howardj]

I think Ponting's back injury may do for his career in the medium term.

It seems to be troubling him more frequently than previously, and tbh if he captains a winning tour to India and a winning Ashes side in England, I dunno how much more there is for him to achieve.

He's said that one more World Cup should see him out.

Then I think he'll play IPL if it's still around.

It's no secret that he loves cash, and good on him.

 

[Richard]

I'll take Lara, Chanderpaul (although, truth be told, Chanderpaul's ability against pace and spin is comparable, IMO) and Sarwan, but Jimmy Adams (?) was noted for his defensiveness against the spinners - hardly a quality of a great player of spin. I do remember Bravo playing Shane Warne well in Hobart.

Adams was just noted for his defensiveness, really. He could certainly bat, though, and it was generally considered very tough for spinners to get him out. Not as good against spin as Lara (or Chanderpaul) of course, but his wicket wasn't one a spinner would particularly fancy their chances of getting.

However, bringing somebody like Denesh Ramdin up, is, for mine, scarcely more credible than me bringing Brett Lee up as an example. Ramdin's a specialist wicketkeeper if I've ever seen one and only a slightly more effective batsman than Lee, in general.

True, I guess. He's been woeful of late, but he actually started-off OK.

Wait...doesn't this more or less indicate the West Indies' ineptitude against spin in general, though? AFAIK, there are no bowlers in the international game who are classified as 'Right Arm Slow' (Allan Langer was in a tribute game, although probably more as a piss-take). Thus, the only slow bowlers would be spinners.

Nah, of course all slow bowlers try to turn the ball, but sometimes they can't spin it enough to do so. The point is that weakness against a spinner who wasn't turning the ball would simply be weakness against the ball bowled at 50mph, which would be odd TSTL.

I don't recall those Tests right now, for some reason...

First, Second, Third Tests in West Indies, Third and Fourth Tests in England.