The greatest batsman from each Test team

[SJS]

Not live, but certainly on tape. He was as elegant a batsman as any. I didn't mean to be rude by asking, just that not many pick him as Pakistan's greatest batsman. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why you consider him better than the three I mentioned.

No my dear I did not think you were being rude. I just wanted to know for there is a big difference between discussing with those who have seen a player and those who haven't.

Zaheer was technically stronger, than Miandad while having all the strokes and the mental toughness (even though he was a gentleman on the field)

He was stronger than Inzy in the head and fitter while having all the strokes Inzy had. He was also not reluctant to bat higher up the order as Inzy without doubt was. His record in one day cricket is remarkable - more so since he played in the early days of the limited overs game. His strike rate in odi's for those times is mind boggling when seen in context with his batting average and this from a very orthodox batsman.

Hanif was technically the best of the lot but played the fewest strokes - not because he couldn't I think. I have seen Hanif play but I was very young. He was the original little master but the position of Pakistan in world cricket, the psychological (inferiority complex) problems the sub-continental people suffered from those early independence-from-colonial-rule years affected him as it did most. He was the Sunil Gavaskar of the times. Holding on to his wicket as a child does to its safety blanket.

But for having seen Zaheer almost all through his fabulous career, I would have gone for Hanif.

 

[Fusion]

No my dear I did not think you were being rude. I just wanted to know for there is a big difference between discussing with those who have seen a player and those who haven't.

Zaheer was technically stronger, than Miandad while having all the strokes and the mental toughness (even though he was a gentleman on the field)

He was stronger than Inzy in the head and fitter while having all the strokes Inzy had. He was also not reluctant to bat higher up the order as Inzy without doubt was. His record in one day cricket is remarkable - more so since he played in the early days of the limited overs game. His strike rate in odi's for those times is mind boggling when seen in context with his batting average and this from a very orthodox batsman.

Hanif was technically the best of the lot but played the fewest strokes - not because he couldn't I think. I have seen Hanif play but I was very young. He was the original little master but the position of Pakistan in world cricket, the psychological (inferiority complex) problems the sub-continental people suffered from those early independence-from-colonial-rule years affected him as it did most. He was the Sunil Gavaskar of the times. Holding on to his wicket as a child does to its safety blanket.

But for having seen Zaheer almost all through his fabulous career, I would have gone for Hanif.

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation! I would rate Abbas as the best ODI batsman Pakistan produced for sure, in fact he'd be in my all-time ODI XI. Call it a matter of bias towards players I grew up watching, but I rate both Miandad and Inzi above Abbas in Tests. Though I won't have any issues with your preference!

 

[Craig]

Not going to do a list as it will be mostly the same for what people have posted, but I will have George Headley as my all-time Greatest West Indies batsman. This is something I have believed well before I posted on internet forums.

 

[weldone]

Batsmen:
WI: Headley
Aust: Bradman
Ind: SRT
Eng: Hobbs
RSA: Kallis
Zim: A Flower
NZ: Crowe
Sl Sangakarra
PAk: Miandad

Bowlers:
WI: Marshall
Aust: Mcgrath
Ind: Kumble
Eng: Trueman
RSA: Donald
Zim: Streak
NZ: Hadlee
Sl: Murali
Pak: Imran

Very decent list...Bowlers' list will probably be similar (Barnes definitely before Trueman though) for me...In the batsmans' list I'll put Sobbers just ahead of Headley, Sutcliffe definitely ahead of Crowe and probably Inzi in Miandad's place, rest unchanged...

 

[Somerset]

Australia - Sir Don
Bangladesh - Bashar
England - Jack Hobbs
India - Sachin Tendulkar
New Zealand - Martin Crowe (although tough on Sutcliffe)
Pakistan - Miandad (tough on Inzi)
South Africa - Graeme Pollock/Kallis (difficult one to choose IMO, with Pollock definitely a candidate for SA's best but without actually playing much for SA)
Sri Lanka - Sangakkara (but tough on Sanath, M.Jayawardene and de Silva)
West Indies - Sir Garfield Sobers
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower

 

[SJS]

BOWLERS :-

1. Lillee
2. Barnes
3. Donald
4. Roberts
5. Hadlee
6. Kapil
7. Imran
8. Murali

 

[Richard]

What was I thinking putting Javed > Hanif in my opening post.

Anyway let's do bowlers too, though that's a bit less fun as most of them are obvious...
England - Barnes
Australia - Lindwall \ Lillee \ McGrath (honestly simply cannot split these)
South Africa - Donald
West Indies - Marshall
India - Gupte or possibly Kapil Dev
New Zealand - Hadlee (R)
Pakistan - Imran Khan
Sri Lanka - Muralitharan
Zimbabwe - Streak

Only Australia and India I have to even think about and there I can't truly make-up my mind.

Interesting to see near universal consent so far that Sobers > Headley for WI batsmen.

 

[Somerset]

Australia - Lillee, McGrath and Warne
Bangladesh - Mohammad Rafique
England - Sid Barnes
India - Kapil Dev
New Zealand - Sir Richard Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran and Akram
South Africa - Donald and Pollock
Sri Lanka - Murali
West Indies - Suppose you could pick any of the 80s bowlers, Malcolm Marshall, Joel Garner, Andy Roberts or even Ambrose
Zimbabwe - Streak

 

[Isura]

England - Jack Hobbs
Australia - Donald Bradman
South Africa - Jacques Kallis, with a nod to Barry Richards & Graeme Pollock, if they had played more
West Indies - Garry Sobers
India - Sachin Tendulkar, with a nod to Vijay Merchant, if he had played more
New Zealand - Martin Crowe
Pakistan - Javed Miandad
Sri Lanka - Kumar Sangakarra
Zimbabwe - Andy Flower

Same except I'd take Richards over Kallis and Richards over Sobers.

 

[Richard]

England - Sid Barnes

*Syd.

South Africa - Donald and Pollock

Donald >>>>> SM Pollock IMO.

West Indies - Suppose you could pick any of the 80s bowlers, Malcolm Marshall, Joel Garner, Andy Roberts or even Ambrose

Nah, think Marshall trumps them all TBH. Much more complete bowler than any of them.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

England - Trueman
Australia - Lillee
South Africa - Donald
West Indies - Marshall
India - Chandrasekhar
New Zealand - Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran Khan
Sri Lanka - Muralitharan
Zimbabwe - Streak
Bangladesh - Aunt Phyliss

 

[social]

Interesting to see near universal consent so far that Sobers > Headley for WI batsmen.

Why?

Headley only played a relatively small number of tests and basically had real success against only one team

Hardly any justification to rate him in Sobers' class let alone above him

 

[Richard]

Headley played a decent number of games and did sensationally well, and also played cricket other than Tests, which in his day weren't the absolutely only level that mattered.

And in this cricket, which both he and Sobers played plenty of, Headley did far better.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Headley played a decent number of games and did sensationally well, and also played cricket other than Tests, which in his day weren't the absolutely only level that mattered.

But the thread says "Greatest Test Batsman" which is why people are picking Pollock when Richards was superior.

 

[Richard]

It actually says "greatest batsman from each Test team". I wasn't neccessarily wanting only players who'd played a decent amount of Test cricket. However, I think Headley did (much as he should've played more) and Barry Richards didn't.

Very possibly, Richards (B) > Pollock (G) but Richards barely played Test cricket. Nonetheless, I wasn't meaning "forget those who never played Test cricket".

 

[Flem274*]

Aus-Bradman
NZ-Donnelly or Dempster
England-Grace or Hobbs
Pak-err Miandad
Ind-Tendulkar
WI-Headley
SA-G Pollock
SL-Sangakara
Zim-A Flower

 

[social]

Headley played a decent number of games and did sensationally well, and also played cricket other than Tests, which in his day weren't the absolutely only level that mattered.

And in this cricket, which both he and Sobers played plenty of, Headley did far better.

 

[Richard]

 

[Craig]

Headley got to play 22 Tests (which I imagine was a fair bit back then when you consider it took Bradman 20 years to play 52 Tests) and got ten centuries and five 50s and ended up with a Test average of just under 61 and FC average of just under 70 (from 103 FC games). True he only averaged 37 against Australia, but he was able to adapt to Australian conditions and bowlers like O'Reilly (IIRC he elimated one of his favourite shots through the leg side to avoid getting out that way) was able to make two centuries and basically lead from the front with a lot weaker West Indian team. His feats were pretty impressive.

Or do we discount ever cricketer from before 1950 as over-rated hacks?

 

[rodzilla1010]

Australia - Lillee, McGrath and Warne
Bangladesh - Mohammad Rafique
England - Sid Barnes
India - Kapil Dev
New Zealand - Sir Richard Hadlee
Pakistan - Imran and Akram
South Africa - Donald and Pollock
Sri Lanka - Murali
West Indies - Suppose you could pick any of the 80s bowlers, Malcolm Marshall, Joel Garner, Andy Roberts or even Ambrose
Zimbabwe - Streak

I would not put Akram next to Imran...IMO akram was the greatest ODI bowler...but i think he is second to Waqar Younis.

Rating the greatest ever, because its hard to choose between players who were better than the rest in thier prime or who were better than the rest at average throuout hier career.
I havnt seen any cricket before 1990...so my contemperary list

Australia - R Ponting
West Indies - Lara (i have seen clips of viv richards, and he looked more charasmatic)
England - Cant find a "batsman" who was truely great
India - Sachin ( Laxman at his peak was better than any)
Pakistan - Yousaf (Technically better and does better abraod, But inzi is a match winner)
Zimbabwe - A Flower
New Zealand - Cant find any
Sri Lanka - Sangakkara
South Africa - Kallis