Hussain vs Atherton vs Fleming as Test Batsmen

[Zinzan]

Welcome back Perm, haven't seen ya for a while

 

[Richard]

Or his "rabbit caught in headlights" impression when facing McGrath and Warne.

So much wrong with that, I don't really know where to start.

 

[Richard]

Was it a bad back? Or mental instability caused by McGrath?

Bad back, but it only affected him in 6 Tests.

The latter 4 of those are wrongly used to construct a case for McGrath causing him mental instability.

 

[Richard]

I never saw much of Nasser Hussain and Michael Atherton, but from what I have read I know they were English stalwarts during the 1990's, but their averages suggest they were reasonably average. I do think they could have scored more runs and boosted their averages up

Hussain could - don't really think Atherton could. In fact Atherton's record would be far better if he'd got a few less runs - by not playing a large number of games (8) which he should not have played. Had he not played 2 Tests in 1989, 2 in Zimbabwe in 1996/97 and 4 in Australia in 1998/99, his record would give a far better impression of his performance.

Hussain was held back by his fear of failure, meaning he was not particularly good at cashing-in when the going was easy. He did enough between 1996 and 2004 to have a good Test career (and very good excluding calender-year 2000) but even then, had he not had such considerable fear of failure he could have been much better.

 

[Anil]

I never saw much of Nasser Hussain and Michael Atherton, but from what I have read I know they were English stalwarts during the 1990's, but their averages suggest they were reasonably average. I do think they could have scored more runs and boosted their averages up, but it's not really relevant. You have to judge batsman on what they acheived, not what they could have.

As it is, I'm inclined to go for Atherton, even though I don't rate any of the three too highly.

all three are fairly average players, atherton and hussain showed some grittiness and i would say overachieved, fleming was more naturally talented but did not live up to potential...

 

[Jono]

You reckon Atherton overachieved Anil?

 

[Burgey]

Bad back, but it only affected him in 6 Tests.

The latter 4 of those are wrongly used to construct a case for McGrath causing him mental instability.

The case is perhaps more reliant on the number of times he knocked him over in tests .

 

[Richard]

That was because McGrath was a superb bowler who could bowl very good deliveries very often (especially on seaming pitches, which he encountered a large number of in 1997 and 2001), not because Atherton was mentally weak.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Bad back, but it only affected him in 6 Tests.

The latter 4 of those are wrongly used to construct a case for McGrath causing him mental instability.

Ah, right. All I saw was a mirage then (althought the mental instability could be a stretch!).

 

[Richard]

I'm interested in the psychology which you've used to concoct the idea that Atherton had mental weakness when facing McGrath here. The only time he ever said he felt "down" before facing him was in his very last innings in Test cricket.

 

[PhoenixFire]

I heard that some kid called Bond21 is already a better bowler than Malcolm Marshall, Curtley Ambrose and Richie Benaud combined!!!! Plus he has the arrogance of Prince Naseem Hamed and the supreme wit of Oscar Wilde.

In short, Bond21 is a renaissance man. Which in part explains why he has the physique and good looks of Danny de Vito.

And all the charm of a clogged Eastern Bloc border toilet infested with rats.

Skull IMO.

 

[James_W]

What's your MSN d00d?

jawi13@hotmail.co.uk

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Atherton for me. Fleming by far the best player of spin of the three, though.

edit: For all the talk of how mediocre they were (and I generally agree), it IS an interesting question. I definitely think Atherton though.

 

[Richard]

Certainly clearly the best, but both Atherton and Hussain were excellent against spin too, so not sure about "by far".

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Certainly clearly the best, but both Atherton and Hussain were excellent against spin too, so not sure about "by far".

Atherton was at most a decent player of spin IMO. Hussein was quite good, Fleming was truly excellent, probably in the top 5 players of spin bowling in the world for a while. I think it's fairly clear cut in that sense, though I don't think any of them were poor players of spin. All of them had a lot more problems against quality pace bowling.

 

[Ikki]

They're all certainly better than Hayden, we know that much.

 

[Richard]

Atherton was at most a decent player of spin IMO.

How much of him batting against consistent spin threat did you actually watch, on a ball-by-ball or very-extended-highlights basis out of interest?

I'm guessing it couldn't have been much more than the Pakistan tour of 2000/01, if that, because that's pretty much all I saw. And please don't tell me you based anything on The Ashes 2001, which I presume you did watch extensively. Because Atherton that series (and the preceding two) was not the Atherton which he had been for most of his career.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

How much of him batting against consistent spin threat did you actually watch, on a ball-by-ball or very-extended-highlights basis out of interest?

I'm guessing it couldn't have been much more than the Pakistan tour of 2000/01, if that, because that's pretty much all I saw. And please don't tell me you based anything on The Ashes 2001, which I presume you did watch extensively. Because Atherton that series (and the preceding two) was not the Atherton which he had been for most of his career.

Off the top of my head, I'd say I mainly saw Atherton play against Australia. There's a few other matches or series here and there I do recall watching, generally in the form of highlights, but mainly Australia in terms of live cricket. Does that answer your question?

 

[PhoenixFire]

They're all certainly better than Hayden, we know that much.

Yawn, don't start all that crap up again.

 

[Richard]

Off the top of my head, I'd say I mainly saw Atherton play against Australia. There's a few other matches or series here and there I do recall watching, generally in the form of highlights, but mainly Australia in terms of live cricket. Does that answer your question?

Pretty much. Personally, though, I never saw Atherton unduly troubled by spin-bowling which I did not think would trouble most or all right-handed batsmen. This makes him a bit better than decent-at-best, to me.