Who's better, Lillee or Hadlee?

[archie mac]

Amazed he only included two Australians. Lindwall, Spofforth and even Michael Clarke probably sprung to his mind.

To be fair Lindwall and Spofforth were two great bowlers

 

[Flem274*]

To be fair Lindwall and Spofforth were two great bowlers

Definitely. I was both genuinely surprised they weren't there and genuinely surprised he didn't say something stupid like Michael Clarke.

He saved the stupidity for his sig.

 

[Richard]

To be fair Lindwall and Spofforth were two great bowlers

And Lindwall especially is someone I've long thought gets a raw deal when many look back at great seam-bowlers. Barely gets a mention, yet IMO has as good a case as most.

You know, Sean, I presume, that Freddie S T rated Lindwall better than Lillee?

 

[Richard]

My top five fast bowlers having watched cricket since 1980......

1 Marshall
2 Hadlee
3 Ambrose
4 Mcgrath
5 Akram

Imran, Donald & Waqar just missing out

Imran and Donald both fairly undoubtedly > Wasim, McGrath and Ambrose, just quietly (IMO, obviously).

 

[Flem274*]

Imran and Donald both fairly undoubtedly > Wasim, McGrath and Ambrose, just quietly (IMO, obviously).

Richard to get slaughtered by the cw public in 5...4....3....

 

[SJS]

Imran and Donald both fairly undoubtedly > Wasim, McGrath and Ambrose, just quietly (IMO, obviously).

I tend to agree whole heartedly for Imran - my opinion of course

 

[archie mac]

And Lindwall especially is someone I've long thought gets a raw deal when many look back at great seam-bowlers. Barely gets a mention, yet IMO has as good a case as most.

You know, Sean, I presume, that Freddie S T rated Lindwall better than Lillee?

Tbf, Fred rated everyone from his era higher than everyone that came after

But I have no problem people rating Lindwall higher, Bradman was another who thought there was little between them

 

[SJS]

Tbf, Fred rated everyone from his era higher than everyone that came after

But I have no problem people rating Lindwall higher, Bradman was another who thought there was little between them

I think we keep Spofforth aside (different times completely), Lillee and Lindwall are the greatest Australian fast bowlers ever and two of the greatest bowlers of all time. Lindwall is clearly the template on which Lillee was modeled.

Two former Indian cricketers that I have talked to at length on this (Vijay Hazare and Ramesh Divecha both felt Lillee and Lindwall were very similar. They both felt Lindwall was slightly better but wouldn't say by much since they had not seen Lillee except on TV.

 

[Richard]

Tbf, Fred rated everyone from his era higher than everyone that came after

Yep. Including himself, of course.

But I have no problem people rating Lindwall higher, Bradman was another who thought there was little between them

Have personally never felt I could split the two of them, really. 'Tis the point I was making.

 

[archie mac]

I think we keep Spofforth aside (different times completely), Lillee and Lindwall are the greatest Australian fast bowlers ever and two of the greatest bowlers of all time. Lindwall is clearly the template on which Lillee was modeled.

Two former Indian cricketers that I have talked to at length on this (Vijay Hazare and Ramesh Divecha both felt Lillee and Lindwall were very similar. They both felt Lindwall was slightly better but wouldn't say by much since they had not seen Lillee except on TV.

Yep. Including himself, of course.

Have personally never felt I could split the two of them, really. 'Tis the point I was making.

We all agree??? Where is the fun in that!

 

[Richard]

Nowhere, but it's gotta be done sometimes. Can't be s and s all day every day.

 

[archie mac]

Nowhere, but it's gotta be done sometimes. Can't be s and s all day every day.

Touche

 

[subshakerz]

Imran and Donald both fairly undoubtedly > Wasim, McGrath and Ambrose, just quietly (IMO, obviously).

Imran possibly. Donald was too unimpressive against the best team of his era, Australia, to be better than the other three.

 

[Richard]

Ambrose was similarly unimpressive; McGrath too was unimpressive against the best opposition he faced, South Africa; and Wasim was simply not in Donald's class IMO, though I've never yet taken an in-depth look at his record.

I cannot believe any Pakistani who has seen both Imran and Wasim bowl will rate the latter the better.

 

[Ikki]

Ambrose was similarly unimpressive; McGrath too was unimpressive against the best opposition he faced, South Africa; and Wasim was simply not in Donald's class IMO, though I've never yet taken an in-depth look at his record.

I cannot believe any Pakistani who has seen both Imran and Wasim bowl will rate the latter the better.

Bold statements that will result in certain objections.

But regarding the second: from what I know of you, you started watching after Imran retired, is that correct? If so, how can you make that comment?

You say Imran bowling in videos maybe? That'd also be curious. Wasim Akram was probably the most destructive and freakish bowler on his day. He was freakish regularly, TBH. I do not understand how you could compare the two, disregarding the stats, by looking at their bowling and say Imran was more superior? Your very own hero Donald concedes to Wasim's superiority and gets breathless just talking about his bowling.

 

[Ikki]

Dennis Lillee - Australia Greatest Fast Bowler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-2Iz8bGHEg

 

[Richard]

Bold statements that will result in certain objections.

But regarding the second: from what I know of you, you started watching after Imran retired, is that correct? If so, how can you make that comment?

You say Imran bowling in videos maybe? That'd also be curious. Wasim Akram was probably the most destructive and freakish bowler on his day. He was freakish regularly, TBH. I do not understand how you could compare the two, disregarding the stats, by looking at their bowling and say Imran was more superior? Your very own hero Donald concedes to Wasim's superiority and gets breathless just talking about his bowling.

Indeed, Donald is a modest fellow. And indeed, Wasim was capable of producing the extraordinary ball perhaps more regularly than almost any bowler (bar his companion Waqar early in his career).

I've never seen one Pakistani suggest Wasim > Imran. Those from other nations have, who mostly tend to erroneously judge more on what happened against their own teams more than the overall picture.

Nonetheless - why not test it out. Sadly, there are very few Pakistani fans on CW, less still those with historical knowledge. But it's worth a try.

 

[Ikki]

Imran is a very big figure in Cricket and in Pakistani politics. He was a successful Captain and could also bat. As a complete player superior to Wasim. But only as a bowler, it is not as clear.

 

[Sanz]

Hadlee the Better Bowler, but Lillee the better fast bowler.

 

[Sanz]

Imran is a very big figure in Cricket and in Pakistani politics. He was a successful Captain and could also bat. As a complete player superior to Wasim. But only as a bowler, it is not as clear.

Indeed, at least not as clear as it has been made out to be. It is being presented as if the gap between the two bowlers is beyond any comparison.