Who's better, Lillee or Hadlee?

[Son Of Coco]

No, I'm not throwing them out of the window.

I've watched Hayden, many times, and thought "hmm, he doesn't look that good against the swinging ball does he?". Then I've looked at the stats and the context they come in and found that they wholly support that idea.

I've also watched Atherton over his career (be it the meaningful part or the entire wretched thing that has a small amount of stuff in there that shouldn't have been which causes misrepresentative conclusions to be drawn about the rest) and thought "he was a pretty damn good Test batsman, wasn't he?" Then read his book and found-out that there were times when he played that he shouldn't have. Then I've gone and looked at some stats and seen that his career average with these shouldn't-have-played times knocked-out sums-up the impression I always got of him far more accurately than does his banal career average that those who look only at a CricInfo player page or something spoon-fed them by a TV presenter see.

How do you know a great number of other cricketers haven't played when they shouldn't have? Are you waiting for their books to come out too?

 

[Richard]

Obviously I don't know that cricketers haven't played when they shouldn't have without reading and\or watching. I try not to make too many stringent judgements about those who I know little about. I try to find-out as much as I can, then form the judgement.

 

[bond21]

ajit agarkar is good...

5 better bowlers than Hadlee, ready?

Marshall, Holding, Lindwall, Blewett, McGrath

 

[LongHopCassidy]

ajit agarkar is good...

5 better bowlers than Hadlee, ready?

Marshall, Holding, Lindwall, Blewett, McGrath

You know, CW, I think we've been had. For about 712 posts.

 

[bond21]

is that avatar gillespie or josh kennedy?

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Haha, it's Dizzy. Good spot though.

 

[Migara]

This lists are nothing to do with being all round complete cricketers, they just have to be cricketers.

This is the ESPN list in reverse order.

25 Allan Border Australia
24 Barry Richards South Africa
23 Steve Waugh Australia
22 Kapil Dev India
21 Wasim Akram Pakistan
20 Sir Leonard Hutton England
19 Sir Frank Worrell West Indies
18 George Headley West Indies
17 Greg Chappell Australia
16 Malcolm Marshall West Indies
15 Graeme Pollock South Africa
14 WG Crace England
13 Keith Miller Australia
12 Sir Richard Hadlee New Zealand
11 Ian Botham England
10 Sunil Gavaskar India
9 Wally Hammond England
8 Imran Khan Pakistan
7 Sachin Tendulkar India
6 Dennis Lillee Australia
5 Jack Hobbs England
4 Shane Warne Australia
3 Sir Vivian Richards West Indies
2 Sir Garfield Sobers West Indies
1 Sir Donald Bradman Australia

Odd to find no Muralitharan there. As well as SF Barnes and O'Riely. That's why I also would not regard these lists much.

 

[Migara]

As did Holding.

Lillee was a fast bowlers fast bowler though. He had everything a quick wanted and the skills in addition to the pace.

He is the template most quicks want to model themselves on (or at least used to).

But we all know that Marshall was the best bowler who sent it down with some pace in the history of cricket. Clearly Marshall > Lillee.

 

[Migara]

Lillee....when making a poll at least make it a hard decision...

I could name 5 bowlers apart from Lillee that are better than Hadlee was.

I'd like to know that 5 fast bowlers better than Hadlee. Please dear . . .

Edit: Saw your 5 bowlers. Why not Paul reiffel and Craig McDermott as well?

 

[silentstriker]

Odd to find no Muralitharan there. As well as SF Barnes and O'Riely. That's why I also would not regard these lists much.

That was done in the 90s. But Barnes not in there is ridiculous.

 

[Dissector]

That is one weird list; what happened to Lara, McGrath and Ambrose?

As to the main question I have to go with Hadlee; Lillee took far too many of his wickets in just two countries to be considered as good as someone who succeeded all over the world. If he had more opportunities in the sub-continent he may or may not have succeeded but potential success isn't as good as actual success. If we take batting into account, it's ludicrous to even suggest that Lillee was the better cricketer.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

That is one weird list; what happened to Lara, McGrath and Ambrose?

They all made the short list from which the 25 were chosen....though no Sri Lankans.

ESPN Short list

 

[archie mac]

You're a bit old for Archie's tastes then. Too bad.

Agree with your post on the other page btw.

Post reported

Or


Thanks for the compliment

Or


What are you on about?

 

[NZTailender]

is that avatar gillespie or josh kennedy?

Speaking of avatars.

OK I want some fun.

I will post 3 cricket trivia questions, first one to get all three correct gets to choose which CRICKET PLAYER I have to use for my avatar for one week. It must be a cricket player.

Each question will get progressively more obscure

OK

1. Who was the first bowler to take a test wicket?

2. Who is the only test cricketer to take a 5 for and score a century on his debut?

3. Where did the term "stumps" come from?


Also dont look it up on froogle.

1. Allen Hill
2. Bruce Taylor
3. Tree stumps. It's possible that it got it's name from early players simply using tree stumps as the wickets.

thats correct.

Your avatar is attached.

 

[Fusion]

Speaking of avatars.



Your avatar is attached.

 

[Ikki]

and in lillee's book he ranks hadlee along with alderman and kapil as the best fast medium bowlers of his time.

his favorite fast bowlers?

ambrose and marshall.

Lillee also mentioned it is very possible McGrath is the best of all time.

 

[Ikki]

Dennis Lillee On Test Debut / 6th Test- Ashes 1971
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW3bAKSBieY

 

[Ikki]

Dennis bowling Off-Spinners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdj10CLX10k&feature=related

 

[bagapath]

I could name 5 bowlers apart from Lillee that are better than Hadlee was.

marshall
barnes
loahmann
mcgrath
garner

i tried but i am not sure i got it right. i am certain barnes and marshall can be classed above hadlee. but the other three are very very close.

 

[Flem274*]

Speaking of avatars.








Your avatar is attached.

Excellent work.