Who's better, Lillee or Hadlee?

[Lillian Thomson]

Just conveniently collating any tiny scraps that might prove a point but disregarding any similar evidence that might disprove it.

 

[Richard]

No, if I thought there was some evidence that disproved it, I'd not hold the opinion. AFAIC, all the evidence points to the conclusion I've drawn. According to some others, it points to something else.

 

[Engle]

FWIW, both Wisden and ESPN Legends had Lillee ahead of Hadlee in their list of top Cricketers

 

[Richard]

Now, in a list of top cricketers, that's bizarre. Even allowing for Lillee's much more considerable both impact on the public and post-retirement skill as a coach, Hadlee's batting was so far ahead of Lillee's to render any suggestion that Lillee was the better complete-package player truly odd.

I'm quite glad now that I never paid much attention to such lists - as I pretty much don't for any list made by anyone. Trying to rank cricketers in exact ways like that is truly a pointless exercise.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

This lists are nothing to do with being all round complete cricketers, they just have to be cricketers.

This is the ESPN list in reverse order.

25 Allan Border Australia
24 Barry Richards South Africa
23 Steve Waugh Australia
22 Kapil Dev India
21 Wasim Akram Pakistan
20 Sir Leonard Hutton England
19 Sir Frank Worrell West Indies
18 George Headley West Indies
17 Greg Chappell Australia
16 Malcolm Marshall West Indies
15 Graeme Pollock South Africa
14 WG Crace England
13 Keith Miller Australia
12 Sir Richard Hadlee New Zealand
11 Ian Botham England
10 Sunil Gavaskar India
9 Wally Hammond England
8 Imran Khan Pakistan
7 Sachin Tendulkar India
6 Dennis Lillee Australia
5 Jack Hobbs England
4 Shane Warne Australia
3 Sir Vivian Richards West Indies
2 Sir Garfield Sobers West Indies
1 Sir Donald Bradman Australia

 

[Ikki]

And most of the bowlers of this era (post 1990) have said that Tendulkar and Lara are the best they've ever bowled to, yet you say Ponting was better.

Inconsistent.

Considering Ponting had a largely short career in the 90s whereas Tendulkar had played for some 10 years, it's not hard to see why. Using your brain comes in handy.

 

[Ikki]

Now, in a list of top cricketers, that's bizarre. Even allowing for Lillee's much more considerable both impact on the public and post-retirement skill as a coach, Hadlee's batting was so far ahead of Lillee's to render any suggestion that Lillee was the better complete-package player truly odd.

I'm quite glad now that I never paid much attention to such lists - as I pretty much don't for any list made by anyone. Trying to rank cricketers in exact ways like that is truly a pointless exercise.

Haha, what happened to talks of historians and testimonies? Hypocrite.

 

[Richard]

This lists are nothing to do with being all round complete cricketers, they just have to be cricketers.

This is the ESPN list in reverse order.

25 Allan Border Australia
24 Barry Richards South Africa
23 Steve Waugh Australia
22 Kapil Dev India
21 Wasim Akram Pakistan
20 Sir Leonard Hutton England
19 Sir Frank Worrell West Indies
18 George Headley West Indies
17 Greg Chappell Australia
16 Malcolm Marshall West Indies
15 Graeme Pollock South Africa
14 WG Crace England
13 Keith Miller Australia
12 Sir Richard Hadlee New Zealand
11 Ian Botham England
10 Sunil Gavaskar India
9 Wally Hammond England
8 Imran Khan Pakistan
7 Sachin Tendulkar India
6 Dennis Lillee Australia
5 Jack Hobbs England
4 Shane Warne Australia
3 Sir Vivian Richards West Indies
2 Sir Garfield Sobers West Indies
1 Sir Donald Bradman Australia

So much wrong with that I won't even bother starting, but to say again - never have and never will set much if any store by lists of that type.

 

[Richard]

Haha, what happened to talks of historians and testimonies? Hypocrite.

I wonder who was responsible for this, I really do. I'd not be surprised to find-out it was someone with merely a passing interest in the game.

 

[Ikki]

I wonder who was responsible for this, I really do. I'd not be surprised to find-out it was someone with merely a passing interest in the game.

Passing interest in the game, ok: Hussain > Hayden.

 

[Engle]

Considering the ESPN panel of judges, I'd give it a fair dose of credibility :

Wasim Akram, Sunil Gavaskar, Richie Benaud, Sir Richard Hadlee, Dickie Bird, Michael Holding, Allan Border, John Knowles, Ian Botham, Robin Marlar, Ian Chappell, Christopher Martin-Jenkins, Tony Cozier, Mike Procter, Martin Crowe .

 

[Richard]

Passing interest in the game, ok: Hussain > Hayden.

No-one who had a passing interest only could possibly come to that conclusion - that would take intelligence and intricate knowledge of the game.

 

[Richard]

Considering the ESPN panel of judges, I'd give it a fair dose of credibility :

Wasim Akram, Sunil Gavaskar, Richie Benaud, Sir Richard Hadlee, Dickie Bird, Michael Holding, Allan Border, John Knowles, Ian Botham, Robin Marlar, Ian Chappell, Christopher Martin-Jenkins, Tony Cozier, Mike Procter, Martin Crowe .

Very strange. Though I'd call several of those lot as dubious.

 

[Ikki]

No-one who had a passing interest only could possibly come to that conclusion - that would take intelligence and intricate knowledge of the game.

Or it would illustrate a complete lack of logic and intelligence. Not only about the game but in general.

 

[Dasa]

Or it would illustrate a complete lack of logic and intelligence. Not only about the game but in general.

 

[Ikki]

 

[Dasa]

Hmm don't think you quite understand if that's your reaction. I posted that because I thought it was pretty ****ty of you to bring personal insults into an debate, something that you've done on more than one occasion.

 

[Ikki]

Hmm don't think you quite understand if that's your reaction. I posted that because I thought it was pretty ****ty of you to bring personal insults into an debate, something that you've done on more than one occasion.

I think it's pretty ****ty to come in, brown nose and leave. The constant one word pass-bys are insulting to me. That's my reaction. And, although I am sure Richard may find it insulting, I truly believe that in a lot of ways he has absolutely no clue what he is talking about. Whether you agree or disagree is upto you. I just thought I'd return the ol' roll eyes back.

 

[Ikki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3A54xGu6gA

 

[Richard]

I think it's pretty ****ty to come in, brown nose and leave. The constant one word pass-bys are insulting to me. That's my reaction. And, although I am sure Richard may find it insulting, I truly believe that in a lot of ways he has absolutely no clue what he is talking about.

I don't find it insulting - I've believed for a fair while now that you don't have an open enough mind to accept some things you need to be able to accept to be a true fan of the game of cricket. The fact that you suggest I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, a suggestion made (and not later retracted) by no more than 4 or 5 others in CW history, is proof enough of this. Your manner, which is poor and which many people have called you out on, is merely an aside to this. I am only insulted by the V&A of those I take seriously. I did used to take you so, but not for a little while now. It's merely annoying to have to respond constantly to your posts, stopping you from giving others a false impression of me.

BTW, pretty laughable to accuse Dasa of brown-nosing anyone, least of all me. Can't think of so much as a single person who's ever done that to me on here.