Top 5 Australian batsman after Bradman.

[Burgey]

Hussey's an interesting one, in that he came into the test side with a complete game. Not his fault of course - for years the order was strong enough that he couldn't get a game.
I wonder, though, had he got a chance in his early-mid 20s, would we rate him as highly?
Likewise, imiagine if Ponting came in at age 30 and tore up like he has since that time. We would be comparing him with the best since Bradman, given his record in that period.

 

[Richard]

According to my ratings

2. Ponting
3. Hussey
4. Hayden
5. Chappell
6. S. Waugh

i.m.o:

Chappell
Ponting
Hayden
Border
S. Waugh

Hayden above Border and Stephen Waugh...

 

[Richard]

Hussey's an interesting one, in that he came into the test side with a complete game. Not his fault of course - for years the order was strong enough that he couldn't get a game.
I wonder, though, had he got a chance in his early-mid 20s, would we rate him as highly?
Likewise, imiagine if Ponting came in at age 30 and tore up like he has since that time. We would be comparing him with the best since Bradman, given his record in that period.

As things stand I doubt many would hesitate to place Ponting above Hussey. However, if, and it's quite an if, Hussey should play Test cricket for another 4 or 5 years and continue to average something like 60, he'd certainly have something of a case.

Really, though, when before about 2003 was Hussey's form strong enough for him to even be considered? I forget when his first Australia A cap even was.

 

[NZTailender]

1. Slater
2. Katich
3. Langer
4. Hussey
5. Love



...were the ones I enjoyed watching most. (h)

 

[Richard]

Justin Langer and Martin Love, ITSTL. Amazed anyone enjoyed watching either of them.

 

[Burgey]

As things stand I doubt many would hesitate to place Ponting above Hussey. However, if, and it's quite an if, Hussey should play Test cricket for another 4 or 5 years and continue to average something like 60, he'd certainly have something of a case.

Really, though, when before about 2003 was Hussey's form strong enough for him to even be considered? I forget when his first Australia A cap even was.

Ind33d, and that's my point. Some guys get thrown in, owing to circumstances, when they may not be ready. An example would be S Waugh in the 80s. Had circumstances contrived to put someone like Hussey (or anyone else for that matter) in before they were ready, then their record and the manner in which we regard them may suffer.
Some guys come in and prosper from a young age (Tendulkar), others come in older as a complete package (Hussey) others aren't ready or don't measure up at first, but end up great or fine players after spells out of a team (Langer, Hayden, S Waugh to name but three).
Just a confluence of timing, form and availablility of places I guess.

 

[gwo]

4. Alan Border
Out of the Steve Waugh mould... actually Waugh is out of his Mould. The great credit to Border was he went 61 innings without making a century, yet his average for those innings was above 50. That's remarkable consistency. Border never threw his wicket away and would do anything to save it. If it's turning his back on a bouncer to get hit, so be it. It if means having the shortest backswing you'd ever seen and just pushing at the ball, he'd do it. "The little Aussie battler" that called him because he just never gave up. Don't look at his number on centuries because they don't show how consistent he was. Look at the number of runs he accumulated over his career.

I read this post and my jaw dropped as Border barely averaged 50 in his test career.

Then I remembered I had statsguru as my friend.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...an;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Good effort...but not quite true.

 

[Michaelf7777777]

1. S.Barnes
2. N.Harvey
3. C.Macartney
4. S.Waugh
5. K.Miller

Honorable mentions to: A.Gilchrist, A.Morris, R.Ponting, M.Hussey, A.Border, M.Waugh, V.Trumper, S.McCabe, L.Hassett, G.Chappell, B.Murdoch and H.Collins

 

[howardj]

G Chappell
Harvey
Border
Trumper
Ponting

 

[gwo]

And what's more in the second-innings teams, especially those like Australia who were regularly in strong positions, would often be chasing quick runs and (without having looked the case up, as plenty often enough you stereotype like this and it turns-out not to have happened that often) lower-middle-order batsmen have to hit out or get out.

Also, have you looked at his second-innings average 1992\93-2001? I'd be willing to bet it'd be just a bit higher...

Hmmm

1992/1993 wouldnt have been a good time to start filtering those statistics

The period you mentioned... up until Sep 01 (where the bowling of the world dropped off...) ... Stephen Waugh infact averages 31.40. (from start of his career to Sep 01 he averages 31.39). This is with 1 Century, 6 50s and 8 ducks and 21 sub 20 scores (where he was dismissed or retired).

That said...of his 50s ..5 of them were not out and that was also with a 49* and 47*.

Yes, from Sept 01 onwards Waugh averaged 39.10 with the bat... Even when "chasing quick runs".

It seems pretty clear to me that statistics don't paint the whole picture with Mister Waugh, but it's also pretty clear that his 2nd innings performances were outright **** in general.

I can't paint it any other way.

2nd dig average...
1985-1991 - 31.36
1992-Sept 2001 - 31.40
Sept 2001 - End of Career - 39.1

That is why NUFAN is correct...when games were more likely to be on the line between 1985 to 2001... Stephen Waugh averaged 31.39.


*yes i understand stats don't say all and he does have a few things in his favour (ie majority of his large 2nd innings scores have been n.o.)

 

[SJS]

• Victor Trumper
• Neil Harvey
• Greg Chappell
• Steve Waugh
• Ricky Ponting

In order of their test careers

 

[Burgey]

I read this post and my jaw dropped as Border barely averaged 50 in his test career.

Then I remembered I had statsguru as my friend.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...an;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Good effort...but not quite true.

Mind you, nearly 45 without a ton for so long isn't that bad either.

 

[SJS]

Mind you, nearly 45 without a ton for so long isn't that bad either.

If one assumes that not getting a ton has no negative connotations by itself

 

[Burgey]

Quite right. I remember watching a lot of AB during that period, and his scoring rate seemed to have slowed so much that he was seemingly batting for as long, just not getting the ton.

I think it was Healey who was batting with him in a test during that period, and AB was about 80 odd not out and about to declare. Healey suggested he bat on to get the monkey (in its non-offensive sense ) off his back, but he declared anyway.

 

[Top_Cat]

Quite right. I remember watching a lot of AB during that period, and his scoring rate seemed to have slowed so much that he was seemingly batting for as long, just not getting the ton.

I think it was Healey who was batting with him in a test during that period, and AB was about 80 odd not out and about to declare. Healey suggested he bat on to get the monkey (in its non-offensive sense ) off his back, but he declared anyway.

There's also this one when AB was batting with Mike Whitney and was left stranded on 91*. Quick Whit got out trying to land Raju out of the ground and was criticised for it but AB said he was about to declare anyway.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63566.html

Some good knocks in that match. I do, however, remember Taylor's being absolutely excruiating. Azharuddin's more than made up for it, though.

 

[gwo]

Mind you, nearly 45 without a ton for so long isn't that bad either.

/agree

Was just shocked at the initial statistic.

fyi

my top 5.

Chappelli
Border
Ponting
Waugh (despite his 2nd innings flops)
Trumper

in no particular order.

 

[Burgey]

Chappelli over Chappellg is an interesting one.

I take it you rate the fighting qualities in players pretty highly?

 

[SJS]

Chappelli over Chappellg is an interesting one.

I take it you rate the fighting qualities in players pretty highly?

I haven't listed Ian Chappell but I do think he is one of the most under rated batsmen I have ever seen. Surprisingly even his own countrymen dont seem that fond of him.

A great batsman, a fantastic fielder, an inspirational (though tough) leader of men and a fabulous student of the game. Of this last quality there would be thousands of more who appreciate but for his irascible tongue but one should be see that as a personality trait (and one suspects a complete refusal to tolerate fools) which has nothing to do with his immense insight.

He with Simpson, even when the two do not agree with each other, are two cricket experts I will want to listen to every time and read every line of.

 

[howardj]

Shocked and surprised that so many folk put Tugger in their top five.

 

[SJS]

Shocked and surprised that so many folk put Tugger in their top five.

I am surprised myself that I included him. When I started writing the names, I had no clue I would include him but when I started short-listing Australian batsmen, I found not so many to challenge him.

My first reaction, to myself, was, how the hell have Australia dominated world cricket so often with so few truly great batsmen !

Seriously.