Vivian Richards vs Sachin Tendulkar

[Richard]

I'm sure you have your own standard which starts at a convenient date for you, but Zimbabwe has always been a poor Test side. Maybe not in the Bangladesh mold but certainly not much higher.

It starts at the only date that makes sense. Zimbabwe were clearly competetive - even if usually not as good as the rest - up to World Cup 2003. From April 2003 onwards, they've been flattened in near enough every game - Test and ODI - they've played, and it's obvious why, too - there was a large exodus of players after that tournament.

They were bottom (mostly) of the pile up to March 2003 - they were completely unworthy of being part of the pile thereafter. No game involving them from then on merits Test or ODI status.

 

[Ikki]

A lot actually. He hasn't capitlized on flat wickets, which hurts him undoubtedly. But, he did do well against much better bowling on livelier tracks, so he that counteracts his flat-pitch era performance. If he only played in flat pitch and averaged that, or had his career flipped where he sucked in the 90s and did much better in post-2000, I'd rate him much lower than I do. I'd put him in the flat belters class in that case, as several others are in the post-2000 era.

And I don't think you need to subtract 10-15 in all cases, because I do think Ponting has come close to Lara and Tendulkar. If I thought it was a universal thing that you subtract, Ponting would be nowhere near those two. It's usually not black and white in terms of 'subtract x and you get y'.

Ponting averages 64 since the turn of the century and when he held a stable position in the 90s he averaged 51. And in the 90s, he belted the two best bowling attacks Tendulkar failed to get above 40 with. There should be no more talk of Ponting being merely near them, in fact, it it's getting more to be the other way. For someone who values consistency as well as flair, then Ponting's record should be likened to your favourite McGrath's. Once his record in India rises to above 40 runs average, there is pretty much nothing that can be held against him. In fact, if Ponting keeps going the way he has been, I can very easily call him the best bar Bradman.

It's usually not black and white in terms of 'subtract x and you get y'.

I know it isn't mate, I'm teasing you.

 

[aussie]

Ha, another comparison thread CWers these days seem to have a weird way of comparing players across era's who they haven't seen based on statistical analysis.

Fact remains no one to my knowledge who has seem Richards & Tendulkar bat would rate Sachin higher, i would understand if someone took Tendulkar or Chappell over Viv because of what they valued in batsmanship but i don't think they would be correct still.

So no disrespect to Richard, SS etc who voted to Tendulkar but given that we didn't see Viv bat i think we should accept what MANY observes of him say of him because seeing clips & viewing stats wouldn't tell us the full truth about him i reckon.

Just like the Lillee/Marshall argument, Lillee is said to be looked down upon in comparison to him because statistically he didn't do well in the sub-continent & WI when compared to him. But has most of us already know stats do not tell us about the injury situations he faced etc. Since even though i never saw him bowl i can't see why such an obvious naturally talented bowler wouldn't have been able to do well in batsman friendly conditions, especially when you have a bowler like McGrath for those who remember him pre 97 Ashes when who had Donald/Ambrose/Wasim/Waqar/Walsh being ranked the best in the buisness seeing McGrath non would have expected him to have such a superb record in time in such conditions but hard-work made him into such a bowler.

The fact that Richards could face the likes of Lillee/Thommo, Imran etc without a helmet (and i reckon if he was a modern day play he still wouldn't wear one) & intimidate them even though i never saw him bat tells me alot about the man.

A better comparison would be Tendulkar/Chappell since the only batsmen post war who i think can be reasonably compared to Richards would be Lara & Sobers.

 

[silentstriker]

Once his record in India rises to above 40 runs average, there is pretty much nothing that can be held against him. In fact, if Ponting keeps going the way he has been, I can very easily call him the best bar Bradman.

Sure, if he keeps going for another 3-4 years like he has, he'd definitely make a case for second since Bradman.

 

[silentstriker]

So no disrespect to Richard, SS etc who voted to Tendulkar but given that we didn't see Viv bat i think we should accept what MANY observes of him say of him because seeing clips & viewing stats wouldn't tell us the full truth about him i reckon.

To be fair, I've seen Viv Richards the same way I've seen Tendulkar (through TV). I've seen many of famous innings, and many of his not-so-famous ones. In terms of minutes, I've seen Tendulkar more obviously (its hard to get footage even from the 70s-80s), but I've seen many days of Richards.

 

[Richard]

Fact remains no one to my knowledge who has seem Richards & Tendulkar bat would rate Sachin higher

There are many, though they've been quieter the last few years.

So no disrespect to Richard, SS etc who voted to Tendulkar but given that we didn't see Viv bat i think we should accept what MANY observes of him say of him because seeing clips & viewing stats wouldn't tell us the full truth about him i reckon.

I accept much of what people say about Richards. But there's also stuff I don't accept, and I don't accept either that just because they watched him bat they are correct.

 

[Engle]

Article by Sclyd on Viv

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/story/344206.html

 

[aussie]

Its still clips though more highlights of his some of his better innings.

From my knowledge (including what i have) common footage of Richards would be WI vs ENG/AUS in 90 & 91 (when he was passed his best), you have his innings in the 79 final, his 189 vs ENG in 1984 his 208 vs AUS @ MCG 1984, in Richie Benaud cricket in the 70s his performances on his first tour of ENG in 76 is well highlighted, 146 vs AUS perth in 88 & his fastest test hundred.

All of these knocks even though just highlights were utterly magnificent viewing from a man who clearly was something extrodinary. I have seen just over 10 solid years of Tendulkar & nothing he has done batting wise can compare to some of the destruction i have seen in those innings. Since with Tendulkar @ his best for me was always a consitent scorer i never saw him as a destroyed of attacks like Lara or Gilchrist.

The most memorable or destructive Tendulkar knocks that come to mind would be his 155 & 177 vs AUS in 98, 154* @ SCG the other day @ his 122 vs ENG in 96 that i have on video.

For ODI's (forgive me if i missed any given IND play so much ODI's) his 98 vs PAK in the 03 WC, 3 140+ centuries he scored againts AUS in the late 90s 2 in Sharjah & 1 in the 1st ICC CT that i'll never forget. But nothing comes close to Richard's at his destructive best. Lara in full cry could match though..

 

[Richard]

Article by Sclyd on Viv

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/story/344206.html

Yeah, barely disagree with a word of that (though how anyone can not vote for Garfield Sobers as a cricketer of the 20th-century is beyond me - and I'm truly astounded that Scyld did it ).

Thing is, it's about Richards the cricketer, not Richards the batsman. Batting is about making runs - under all but the rarest circumstances, the more the better.

 

[Richard]

Its still clips though more highlights of his some of his better innings.

From my knowledge (including what i have) common footage of Richards would be WI vs ENG/AUS in 90 & 91 (when he was passed his best), you have his innings in the 79 final, his 189 vs ENG in 1984 his 208 vs AUS @ MCG 1984, in Richie Benaud cricket in the 70s his performances on his first tour of ENG in 76 is well highlighted, 146 vs AUS perth in 88 & his fastest test hundred.

All of these knocks even though just highlights were utterly magnificent viewing from a man who clearly was something extrodinary. I have seen just over 10 solid years of Tendulkar & nothing he has done batting wise can compare to some of the destruction i have seen in those innings. Since with Tendulkar @ his best for me was always a consitent scorer i never saw him as a destroyed of attacks like Lara or Gilchrist.

The most memorable or destructive Tendulkar knocks that come to mind would be his 155 & 177 vs AUS in 98, 154* @ SCG the other day @ his 122 vs ENG in 96 that i have on video.

For ODI's (forgive me if i missed any given IND play so much ODI's) his 98 vs PAK in the 03 WC, 3 140+ centuries he scored againts AUS in the late 90s 2 in Sharjah & 1 in the 1st ICC CT that i'll never forget. But nothing comes close to Richard's at his destructive best. Lara in full cry could match though..

No-one would dispute that nothing, or at least not much, comes close to Richards at his best. The important question isn't "how good are you at your best?", it's "how often are you at your best or somewhere near it?"

And for mine Tendulkar was so rather more often than Richards was, even if he was less awe-inspiring (at least, to certain minds) when he was.

 

[Engle]

Gosh, I've just watched some Youtube on Viv, and the manner in which he exposes all stumps and whacks the ball over the ducking bowler is, is, is....imperious. Wasn't it Thommo who said he feels like wearing a helmet for protection while bowling to Viv ?

 

[JBH001]

Well, in the decade and a half and a bit I have been watching and following cricket, SRT has been the best batsman I have seen. In my mind, no one embodies the craft of batting better than he does. And the other greats of the era, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Waugh etc are all behind him.

As to the comparison with Viv, it is difficult to say. I have hardly seen Viv play, so I shall have to watch some vids of the man bat, and make up my own mind as how they rate in relation to each other. At the moment though, based on records, it would have to be SRT. Yet to cast my vote but...

 

[Anil]

richards for me...at their best, viv was ahead, though not by a lot...and in one dayers, it becomes even closer although richards would probably be slightly ahead there too...

 

[Nishant]

Tendulkar IMO....nt by much though...

 

[silentstriker]

Gosh, I've just watched some Youtube on Viv, and the manner in which he exposes all stumps and whacks the ball over the ducking bowler is, is, is....imperious. Wasn't it Thommo who said he feels like wearing a helmet for protection while bowling to Viv ?

I think it was Imran who said that.

 

[silentstriker]

I was going to go look up what Benaud thinks, but the old fool has both of them in his all time XI. I have a couple of his books, I'll leaf through them.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Viv is the better batsman, but unlike Greg Chappell, Tendulkar is very worthy of comparison.

 

[ret]

a Ferrari or an Aston Martin?

 

[andruid]

Haha, what?

You know, the level to which he has been turned into a celebrity for reasons beyond his cricketing genius for the endorsement of otherwise crap merchandise.

 

[ret]

You know, the level to which he has been turned into a celebrity for reasons beyond his cricketing genius for the endorsement of otherwise crap merchandise.

Dude, if Richards were playing now he would be getting many of those endorsements too .... and I do remember watching a few of Richards ads, so it's not like he never did ads

I hope this is not a case of voting against Tendulkar then voting for Richards