Somerset
Cricketer Of The Year
Well TBH theres no one else outside Vettori, McCullum and Oram better equipped to captain than How, he would've been my choice. That and theres no one else.
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**Official** New Zealand in England
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Flem274*
123/5
Hmmm interesting squad..
Hay has a few things to work on technically from what people around the traps are saying, Flynn seems to be a favourite of Hadlee's, personally think its a wee bit too early for him too.
My First XI:
How
Redmond
McCullum
Taylor
Fulton
Oram
Hopkins (wk)
Vettori (capt)
Mills
Southee
Martin
Or alternatively...
How
Redmond
McCullum (wk)
Taylor
Fulton
Marshall (improved technique, buried down the order)
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin
**** this squad looks shaky.
Hay has a few things to work on technically from what people around the traps are saying, Flynn seems to be a favourite of Hadlee's, personally think its a wee bit too early for him too.
My First XI:
How
Redmond
McCullum
Taylor
Fulton
Oram
Hopkins (wk)
Vettori (capt)
Mills
Southee
Martin
Or alternatively...
How
Redmond
McCullum (wk)
Taylor
Fulton
Marshall (improved technique, buried down the order)
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin
**** this squad looks shaky.
Flem274*
123/5
Didn't have a clue in the State Shield final vs Kyle Mills. Different format though.
Matt52
U19 Vice-Captain
Dissapointed in the side. I was hoping Rob nicol might be a chance. James Marshall,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
. . IMO its not a selection thats going to help NZ cricket in any way shape or form in the future. I think the best we can hope for from Marshall is a few decent knocks mixed in with low scores , an average around 25 or 30, and he will be subsequently dropped, and we have learned absolutely nothing and will be in exactly the same place in 3 months time as we are now. But then again, I could be horribly wrong.
. . IMO its not a selection thats going to help NZ cricket in any way shape or form in the future. I think the best we can hope for from Marshall is a few decent knocks mixed in with low scores , an average around 25 or 30, and he will be subsequently dropped, and we have learned absolutely nothing and will be in exactly the same place in 3 months time as we are now. But then again, I could be horribly wrong.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
I would've elected for picking Hay ahead of Marshall, though I suppose the selectors were looking for a back up number 3 (even though Marshall bat's at number 4 for ND). Redmond is a decent selection, though I'm surprised that Bell wasn't at least selected in the squad to go to England. Other than that, it's a decent squad, and I'll look forward to seeing what side the selectors put on the field in a few weeks.
sportychic33
State 12th Man
Personally I don't mind having Marshall in the team, his record over the past season has been acceptable to be given a chance to go on the tour. We know what kind of player Marshall is, in that he is quick between the wickets and is quite steady. His test career was probably cut short a bit with a bit of stigma against the Marshall twins after they both failed at the same time, however unlike Hamish, James didn't get many opportunities to rectify his failings. Marshall also offers a tonne of experience to the team which is short of experienced players.
Stoked for How to be given the captaincy duties for the opening tour games.
Not sure about Flynn, I think Flynn and Hay may have been fighting for the same spot and the selectors seem to like something in Flynn.
Stoked for How to be given the captaincy duties for the opening tour games.
Not sure about Flynn, I think Flynn and Hay may have been fighting for the same spot and the selectors seem to like something in Flynn.
He's only had 5 tests prior. And he was forced to open if I remember correctly?
I'm going to put on my ND hat on now, and say that Marshall will be a revelation at 3.
He's in the form of his life, and add to that he's an xp campaigner with 50+ averages last 3 seasons. He'll be good on the field, and bat sensibly. May not have all the pretty shots of Sinclair, but at least he is a team player.
I'd have him in the batting lineup to act like How does for us recently - an anchor in the top 3.
tests....
1. How
2. Redmond (Why oh why Jesse Ryder)
3. Fulton / Marshall if Fulton still hasn't found his form
4. Taylor
5. Flynn ( ND hat on again, will be as much of revelation as Ryder has done for ODIs)
edit: as I type this I see sportchic has made the points succinctly and well made too
Just had this thought, maybe we are saving Hay to be our secret weapon against the Indians.
I'm going to put on my ND hat on now, and say that Marshall will be a revelation at 3.
He's in the form of his life, and add to that he's an xp campaigner with 50+ averages last 3 seasons. He'll be good on the field, and bat sensibly. May not have all the pretty shots of Sinclair, but at least he is a team player.
I'd have him in the batting lineup to act like How does for us recently - an anchor in the top 3.
tests....
1. How
2. Redmond (Why oh why Jesse Ryder)
3. Fulton / Marshall if Fulton still hasn't found his form
4. Taylor
5. Flynn ( ND hat on again, will be as much of revelation as Ryder has done for ODIs)
edit: as I type this I see sportchic has made the points succinctly and well made too
Just had this thought, maybe we are saving Hay to be our secret weapon against the Indians.
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sportychic33
State 12th Man
Thanks.edit: as I type this I see sportchic has made the points succinctly and well made too
Just had this thought, maybe we are saving Hay to be our secret weapon against the Indians.
Yes, maybe we are saving Hay to play against the Australians and Indians next Summer. I wonder what the Selectors have said to him? If Hay continues in the same vain of form in the early stages of the State Championship next season he certainly must be a contender to make his way into the team.
Am definitely picking him to go on some of the Emerging tours in our Winter as well.
Flem274*
123/5
Hmm yeah. I do remember with Taylor the selectors knew they were on to something special so they were quite cautious and only played him when they were sure he was ready. Perhaps they're doing the same with Hay?
WRT the ND boys I'll reserve judgement on Marshall until I see batting position and this new technique of his. Remember since How changed his technique he's been a revelation.
Flynn I've barely seen play so I'll wait and see WRT him.
C'mon, as of the tour these "ND" boys are officially Black Caps and we would do well to afford them the same kind of support as we did to Jesse Ryder. 
I think blindly we are a genuine chance. Much will depend on whether Flintoff comes back. England is a whole different side when Flintoff is in there with KP. At the moment, one can argue they have only one dominating batsman in KP. The rest are more orthodox and traditional.
We held our own against an England team with their out of form bowlers, only that our out of sorts Bell and Sinclair offset by Sidebottom.
In fact, New Zealand batting and England's bowling are each other's Achilles heel at the moment.
Aside from Sidebottom, there isn't much else to that England bowling attack. It's a shadow of their Ashes bowling lineup.
We just need to hold our own in the batting department, and make sure our bowlers get good use of the Duke ball.
You may argue English bowlers will utilize it better, but they are out of sorts Hoggard, Anderson and Harmison. Thats three bowlers out of sorts from that squad.
On the other hand we have Martin, while not genuine world class, bowls with accuracy, and with Duke ball in English conditions, I don't see why he can't get more wickets. Southee has impressed, and he's economical if he isn't swinging the ball. Kyle Mills is a genuine swing bowler, and he's accurate to boot. It's not rocket science. If you can put the ball consistently in a channel (which all NZ bowlers do to make up for that lack of penetration) you will get a lot of batsmen out in English conditions.
Hopefully we'll win at least one test out of three. That's being optimistic, but it's not as hopeless as a lot of people who rely on stats and pedigree might think. If we can hammer them in ODIs, I don't see why we can't do it in tests. It's essentially the same bowlers and batsmen facing each other. It's a closer series between these two sides than a lot of punters think.
Then again, if Hoggard comes back to form with Sidey and Broad together, it's a whole different story.
I hope How will solidify the opening berth and make it his own. He's been touted with a lot of potential, and at 27, it's that time to come of age.
Ross Taylor must have a big series and Jacob Oram, while dissappointing, must show why he's worth that much in IPL. Bring back some of that form, and if Kyle Mills and Chris Martin bowl with the same venom as the first test in New Zealand, we'll win.
Oh, if I haven't said it enough. I hope Southee, Flynn and Marshall become a nucleus of the test side as much as Vettori (ND), Taylor and Oram.
Flynn will be a revelation in the first test, as he's been through the nervous debut period with his brief stint prior. Captain of the 2004 U19s, he will form the core of the batting for years to come. It's not a matter of if he gets in, its a matter of when. He's had the same wraps on him as Taylor when he first arrived at the domestic scene.
Key aspect about Flynn's game, he scores big tons. Hard man to get out once he gets to 50. A hard-nosed, nuggety batsman.
Let How bring his A game while he captains, and bring that form into the test, and with Marshall at 3 (at this stage I think Vettori will pick Marshall ahead of Fulton) plus Flynn at 4 I think we have a big chance of cementing our batting lineup. Middle order has never been a problem with our side, it's the top 3.
Edit: Rant / blind optimism biased. :P
I think blindly we are a genuine chance. Much will depend on whether Flintoff comes back. England is a whole different side when Flintoff is in there with KP. At the moment, one can argue they have only one dominating batsman in KP. The rest are more orthodox and traditional.
We held our own against an England team with their out of form bowlers, only that our out of sorts Bell and Sinclair offset by Sidebottom.
In fact, New Zealand batting and England's bowling are each other's Achilles heel at the moment.
Aside from Sidebottom, there isn't much else to that England bowling attack. It's a shadow of their Ashes bowling lineup.
We just need to hold our own in the batting department, and make sure our bowlers get good use of the Duke ball.
You may argue English bowlers will utilize it better, but they are out of sorts Hoggard, Anderson and Harmison. Thats three bowlers out of sorts from that squad.
On the other hand we have Martin, while not genuine world class, bowls with accuracy, and with Duke ball in English conditions, I don't see why he can't get more wickets. Southee has impressed, and he's economical if he isn't swinging the ball. Kyle Mills is a genuine swing bowler, and he's accurate to boot. It's not rocket science. If you can put the ball consistently in a channel (which all NZ bowlers do to make up for that lack of penetration) you will get a lot of batsmen out in English conditions.
Hopefully we'll win at least one test out of three. That's being optimistic, but it's not as hopeless as a lot of people who rely on stats and pedigree might think. If we can hammer them in ODIs, I don't see why we can't do it in tests. It's essentially the same bowlers and batsmen facing each other. It's a closer series between these two sides than a lot of punters think.
Then again, if Hoggard comes back to form with Sidey and Broad together, it's a whole different story.
I hope How will solidify the opening berth and make it his own. He's been touted with a lot of potential, and at 27, it's that time to come of age.
Ross Taylor must have a big series and Jacob Oram, while dissappointing, must show why he's worth that much in IPL. Bring back some of that form, and if Kyle Mills and Chris Martin bowl with the same venom as the first test in New Zealand, we'll win.
Oh, if I haven't said it enough. I hope Southee, Flynn and Marshall become a nucleus of the test side as much as Vettori (ND), Taylor and Oram.
Flynn will be a revelation in the first test, as he's been through the nervous debut period with his brief stint prior. Captain of the 2004 U19s, he will form the core of the batting for years to come. It's not a matter of if he gets in, its a matter of when. He's had the same wraps on him as Taylor when he first arrived at the domestic scene.
Key aspect about Flynn's game, he scores big tons. Hard man to get out once he gets to 50. A hard-nosed, nuggety batsman.
Let How bring his A game while he captains, and bring that form into the test, and with Marshall at 3 (at this stage I think Vettori will pick Marshall ahead of Fulton) plus Flynn at 4 I think we have a big chance of cementing our batting lineup. Middle order has never been a problem with our side, it's the top 3.
Edit: Rant / blind optimism biased. :P
Last edited:
More rant....
Well to be frank, New Zealand is really rebuilding now, and with that we've so far unearthed a few talents. Our ODIs are fine at the moment, and we don't seem that affected at all in the batting in ODIs.
We've had a huge diet of ODIs over the past few seasons leading up to the world cup, and so we neglected to play enough tests (rankings show New Zealand has played only 30 odd tests compared to 50-60 of other countries over the years).
I think it's good we are rebuilding, and not constantly constipated by the Cummings, Papps, Sinclair, Bells of our game. They were the best because there simply weren't anyone else better.
Now we have a bunch of youngsters, Ross Taylor is the most recent one to step up, and the good thing about them is, they are rated by many as 'talents'.
The old group, aside from Sinclair, were journeymen in my mind. Chris Martin, O Brien still fit in that mould. Say what you like, but Bond is a few step up above these other bowlers.
But now Southee has come into the picture. He's been touted as a permanent fixture of our bowling, and he will only improve from his 5-55 debut and 77 from 40 balls with the bat. That's potential.
I've always applauded our coaching setup (aside from Braces lately) for being able to work with no natural talent sides, Fleming the only classy batsman, during the mid 90s. There was a crisis then too, but we ended presevering with journeymen, some have come through (Martin) but others, simply have one off performances or a series of good performances, and then either break down to injuries, or just lose that form dramatically (Sinclair).
At the moment we have the makings of a nucleus side that is young, raw but "talented", rather than just making up the numbers like sides past.
I prefer to see Daniel Flynn, Jesse Ryder as future world international stars rather than simply think, they got in because there is nobody else good enough.
It's a mentality that I hope Black Caps will eventually destroy, the -no natural talent but toils hard- tag that's been with us since Hadlee retired.
I for one think Black Caps will make their mark much like Sri Lanka did in 96 as a genuine talented side that will be extremely competitive and generate the same kind of crowds and enthusiasm to the grounds as other sub continent sides.
--------------------------------------------------------END------------------------------------------------------------------
Well to be frank, New Zealand is really rebuilding now, and with that we've so far unearthed a few talents. Our ODIs are fine at the moment, and we don't seem that affected at all in the batting in ODIs.
We've had a huge diet of ODIs over the past few seasons leading up to the world cup, and so we neglected to play enough tests (rankings show New Zealand has played only 30 odd tests compared to 50-60 of other countries over the years).
I think it's good we are rebuilding, and not constantly constipated by the Cummings, Papps, Sinclair, Bells of our game. They were the best because there simply weren't anyone else better.
Now we have a bunch of youngsters, Ross Taylor is the most recent one to step up, and the good thing about them is, they are rated by many as 'talents'.
The old group, aside from Sinclair, were journeymen in my mind. Chris Martin, O Brien still fit in that mould. Say what you like, but Bond is a few step up above these other bowlers.
But now Southee has come into the picture. He's been touted as a permanent fixture of our bowling, and he will only improve from his 5-55 debut and 77 from 40 balls with the bat. That's potential.
I've always applauded our coaching setup (aside from Braces lately) for being able to work with no natural talent sides, Fleming the only classy batsman, during the mid 90s. There was a crisis then too, but we ended presevering with journeymen, some have come through (Martin) but others, simply have one off performances or a series of good performances, and then either break down to injuries, or just lose that form dramatically (Sinclair).
At the moment we have the makings of a nucleus side that is young, raw but "talented", rather than just making up the numbers like sides past.
I prefer to see Daniel Flynn, Jesse Ryder as future world international stars rather than simply think, they got in because there is nobody else good enough.
It's a mentality that I hope Black Caps will eventually destroy, the -no natural talent but toils hard- tag that's been with us since Hadlee retired.
I for one think Black Caps will make their mark much like Sri Lanka did in 96 as a genuine talented side that will be extremely competitive and generate the same kind of crowds and enthusiasm to the grounds as other sub continent sides.
--------------------------------------------------------END------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Vaughan, Bell and even Cook can all dominate the bowling if it's bad enough. What's more, all are far better batsmen than Flintoff, and if Flintoff comes back (which would be a bonus rather than an expectation) it'll be his bowling I'll be keen to be repossessed of, not his batting.
TBH, I don't really neccessarily think Hoggard is out-of-sorts. We'll know more when the season starts, but he had a couple of bad Tests, which can happen to anyone and everyone. I'll be more surprised if he starts the season poorly than I will if he starts it well.
Jamee999
Hall of Fame Member
I disagreeqWorst spelling of that word ever.
It's queue. NEVER is the Q which is not followed by U in the English language.
The Baconator
International Vice-Captain
These guys beg to differ.Worst spelling of that word ever.
It's queue. NEVER is the Q which is not followed by U in the English language.
