**Official** New Zealand in England

[Bahnz]

Myburg is Australian. NZC gave him incentives to get him to come and play for New Zealand because he has a NZ mother. At least that's him, it could be another person we got over. Grant Elliot is the token South African.

I think you're thinking of Craig Merchant, an Australian number 3, playing at ND.

My Test 15 for the tour

How
Cumming
Sinclair
Taylor
Ryder/Hay
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin
Patel
Gillespie
Bell/McIntosh
Todd/Fulton

Additional players for the early warm up games
Hopkins
Flynn
Elliot

I'm leaning towards Bell rather than McIntosh as the back up opener as he looked to have batted himself into some kind of form by the later stages of his second innings in Napier. But if the Aucklander scores plenty of more runs in the last couple of 4-day matches, and Bell goes back to looking hopeless, I could change my mind. Fulton and Todd is more tricky. Fulton is more experienced, but he's a natural number 4, and has been out of touch this season anyway. Todd, from the sounds of it, is a gritty adhesive player lacking Fulton's array of shots, but that might be what we need at the top. However, besides the two hundreds in one match, his season has also been fairly mediocre. I'm continuing to give Sinclair a chance because he is, on paper, the best number 3 left in the country. But a lot will depend on how he goes in the last round for CD, and the warm up matches. Even if he does well enough to make it into the side, I'd be taking it one step at a time. Hay goes into number 5 on the grounds of two strong seasons in domestic cricket to Daniel Flynn's one. I'd prefer to wait a year before blooding him, but all the other left field selections have worked this season, so why not one more?

 

[Leslie1]

Is Fulton going to be fit in time? Last I heard he has a dodgy knee and it flared up. Part of the reason why he didn't even figured in the tests against England. He's always earmarked to replace Fleming.

 

[Bahnz]

Is Fulton going to be fit in time? Last I heard he has a dodgy knee and it flared up. Part of the reason why he didn't even figured in the tests against England. He's always earmarked to replace Fleming.

I heard about that, but I know absolutely nothing about the seriousness of the injury.

 

[Nutter]

Tim McIntosh played in the First XI for my school, showed huge promise, but is far too inconsistent on the first class scene. I'd rather get another Fleming in the side who gets a million fifties and no hundreds than a Sinclair who gets one quadruple hundred and no fifties.

 

[Flem274*]

Todd is an interesting one. He is very good at the cover drive and the pull but in the only time I've seen him bat, the List A final (made 38) he planted his front pad out and played around it alot. Kyle Mills was honing in on that pad but to his credit Todd was good enough to keep him out but I'd be worried about decent swing bowlers at international level bowling to Todd. Todd IIRC took to Chris Martin a bit (he was attempting to join the Brendan McCullum 170 (2 seconds) show) and did so reasonably (especially considering Martin is excellent to left handers). He eventualy fell when he attempted to pull a ball and chopped it on to his stumps. He's test class but won't be a 40+ average player and won't get into the side ahead of other, better, players that we have.

Hay in his two seasons has a Sinclair-esque record but unlike Sinclair has good technique. Has the talent, the technique and in the interview on TV 3 seems a very positive person mentally. He's definitely worth a look.

Matthew Bell has the talent to succeed. His hand-eye is absolutely fine, he demonstrates it in his cut shots. His technique is the issue and he needs to put in the hard yards with Mark O'Neill. I'd take him as McIntosh, Watling and Guptill haven't proven themselves enough yet.

Peter Fulton has the goods but unfortunately his form is awful. I'd take him on tour though.

My 15 (I've probably already posted this but CBA finding it)

How
Bell
Fulton
Taylor
Hay
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin

Todd
Ryder ( comes over when fit)
Patel
Mason

Whilst the five are away I'd take these three:

Sherlock
Anderson
Hopkins

The only reason Sherlock and Anderson are there is because they'll be fill ins only and there's no point stuffing around with Elliot, Marshall etc for a couple of games because they have no future whatsoever. Give Sherlock and Anderson some overseas experience but definitely don't play them once the IPL blokes return (though if Sherlock in both games takes figures like 8/42 and destroys teams consider, just consider, swapping him for Mason and using him as reserve seamer)

 

[Leslie1]

Great team there Flem274.

One question, what if Fulton isn't fit enough to tour. Who would you have there? Also I think I prefer leaving Taylor at 5 so he can 'anchor' the big hitters of Oram, McCullum and Vettori. I think we have a winning combination middle to allrounder order there.

In all of the innings in this english series, apart from How giving us starts, our middle order have been the difference between falling apart for a low score and getting a decent score.

Test 1: 470 - Taylor scored his century (1st innings)
177 - Lower middle order failed (2nd innings)

Test 2: 198 - Oram failed to make a substantial score
311 - Nobody scored a big century chasing a big target

Test 3: 168 - Lower middle order failed again
431 - Chasing a big total, not 1 batsman played Dravid like innings.

 

[Somerset]

Just listening to Radio Sport, Martin Crowe on Deaker's show. Apparently the Sky Commentator team combined made their side for England, and opted on taking Flynn, Hay, Todd and Guptill (as well as Mason for the final bowling spot). Thoughts on their side? Way too extreme taking four players without test match experience IMO.

 

[Somerset]

Hay in his two seasons has a Sinclair-esque record but unlike Sinclair has good technique. Has the talent, the technique and in the interview on TV 3 seems a very positive person mentally. He's definitely worth a look.

Matthew Bell has the talent to succeed. His hand-eye is absolutely fine, he demonstrates it in his cut shots. His technique is the issue and he needs to put in the hard yards with Mark O'Neill. I'd take him as McIntosh, Watling and Guptill haven't proven themselves enough yet.

Peter Fulton has the goods but unfortunately his form is awful. I'd take him on tour though.

The only reason Sherlock and Anderson are there is because they'll be fill ins only and there's no point stuffing around with Elliot, Marshall etc for a couple of games because they have no future whatsoever. Give Sherlock and Anderson some overseas experience but definitely don't play them once the IPL blokes return (though if Sherlock in both games takes figures like 8/42 and destroys teams consider, just consider, swapping him for Mason and using him as reserve seamer)

Absolutely agree with Bell, given he scored a century against Bangladesh and a fighting 60-odd in his final innings of the series hes actually done OK since his recall. Not great but when you think that Jamie How only scored one 50 in the entire test series as well, I think the criticism of Bell at times has been a bit unwarranted.

I'd also take Fulton, play him in the warm up games and hope he comes right. If he fails in the practice matches then at least hes been given an opportunity to find his form for the test series and can allow a Hay or someone to play in the test series.

 

[Leslie1]

Martin Crowe should have been our batting coach a few years back when he offered his services.

SKY commentary team's team:

These are the batsmen.
J How and Greg Todd (openers)
Guptill as the 3rd opener option
Greg Hay
Ross Taylor
Daniel Flynn (batting at 7)
Peter Fulton

All rounder: Jacob Oram and Grant Elliot

Spinners: Vettori and Patel

Quicks: Martin Mills Southee Mason

Before May 1:
-Gareth Hopkins
- can't remember
- can't remember

 

[Leslie1]

I'd also take Fulton, play him in the warm up games and hope he comes right. If he fails in the practice matches then at least hes been given an opportunity to find his form for the test series and can allow a Hay or someone to play in the test series.

I agree to take him to the tour, but I don't agree that he should be allowed to find his form during the test series. Warm up games yes, but with the fragile batting already, we really cannot afford to carry an out of form batsman like we did with Sinclair.

 

[Somerset]

Cheers.

Anybody know if SA were interested in him? IIRC Amla's domestic record is ****, and this guy is a number three so he must have been looked at?

Hope he's as good as Pietersen, nah actualy, hope he's better.

(Yes I realise its very early days but bar Grant Elliot, stolen yarpies turn out pretty good)

Myburgh played in the Under 19 World Cup for South Africa the same year that New Zealand made the final (that was 98 when New Zealand had Mills, Vincent, Franklin and the Marshall twins to name a few) and opened the batting for them throughout the tournament. Don't believe he was in contention for a place in the South African side at any point though.

Interestingly, Grant Elliott was in the SA Under 19 side in that same tournament.

 

[Somerset]

I agree to take him to the tour, but I don't agree that he should be allowed to find his form during the test series. Warm up games yes, but with the fragile batting already, we really cannot afford to carry an out of form batsman like we did with Sinclair.

I didn't say he should be allowed to find his form during the test series, his place in the test side should depend on his form in the practice matches and if he is able to find his touch in those four or so warm up games.

 

[TT Boy]

Cheers.

Anybody know if SA were interested in him? IIRC Amla's domestic record is ****, and this guy is a number three so he must have been looked at?

Hope he's as good as Pietersen, nah actualy, hope he's better.

(Yes I realise its very early days but bar Grant Elliot, stolen yarpies turn out pretty good)

No. Also, if Hashim Amla (who has a very good first class average) played provincial cricket like Myburgh was doing at the end he would average coming on sixty domestically. Averages in South African cricket are slightly skewed because of that and there is a plethora of no more than decent or **** cricketers who have averages which make people naturally assume they are world class.

In saying that Myburgh is darn sight better cricketer than a couple of New Zealand's current test side and when his qualified he should be a shoe-in.

 

[Leslie1]

Does anyone know the early warm-up games of the quality of the English opposition?

 

[Athlai]

They can be pretty hit and miss eh. Would be interesting to see the line ups.

 

[TT Boy]

Presumably Kent and Essex are not going to field full strength sides (overseas and top pros should sit out) but the England Lions squad should be fairly strong, might even see Flintoff in it.

 

[FBU]

When Myburgh and Rudolph opened the batting for the Titans in South Africa I always thought Myburgh was the better batsman. He must have followed Kruger van Wyk and Nosworthy out there. Myburgh needs another two years to qualify to play for New Zealand.

Myburgh broke Graeme Pollock's record for the youngest scorer of a double century in South African first-class cricket as a 17-year-old in 1997/98.

 

[TT Boy]

When Myburgh and Rudolph opened the batting for the Titans in South Africa I always thought Myburgh was the better batsman. He must have followed Kruger van Wyk and Nosworthy out there. Myburgh needs another two years to qualify to play for New Zealand.

Myburgh broke Graeme Pollock's record for the youngest scorer of a double century in South African first-class cricket as a 17-year-old in 1997/98.

Indeed, just a shame it was in provincial cricket for Northerns B.

 

[Flem274*]

No. Also, if Hashim Amla (who has a very good first class average) played provincial cricket like Myburgh was doing at the end he would average coming on sixty domestically. Averages in South African cricket are slightly skewed because of that and there is a plethora of no more than decent or **** cricketers who have averages which make people naturally assume they are world class.

In saying that Myburgh is darn sight better cricketer than a couple of New Zealand's current test side and when his qualified he should be a shoe-in.

Eh? Why would scores made in provincial/B comps count for First Class?

Shoe in? If he opens then yes, definitely. However our middle order prospects look strong. There's about to be a big scrap between Taylor, Fulton, Ryder, Hay, Todd and possibly Flynn. All bar Todd have the ability to average 40+. Whether they will is another matter. Sinclair won't be seen again, he had the talent to be world class but his technique wasn't up to it. He should jump the que ahead of Todd easily unless he surprises us but he's disadvantaged by the fact that the rest have two or so years to kick **** before he joins the que. Thats why I suspect he'll get told to start opening.

How much do you rate Myburgh BTW?

 

[Flem274*]

Great team there Flem274.

One question, what if Fulton isn't fit enough to tour. Who would you have there? Also I think I prefer leaving Taylor at 5 so he can 'anchor' the big hitters of Oram, McCullum and Vettori. I think we have a winning combination middle to allrounder order there.

In all of the innings in this english series, apart from How giving us starts, our middle order have been the difference between falling apart for a low score and getting a decent score.

Test 1: 470 - Taylor scored his century (1st innings)
177 - Lower middle order failed (2nd innings)

Test 2: 198 - Oram failed to make a substantial score
311 - Nobody scored a big century chasing a big target

Test 3: 168 - Lower middle order failed again
431 - Chasing a big total, not 1 batsman played Dravid like innings.

If Fulton is unavailable I'd use Todd. I have my doubts but Ryder is unavailable and Flynn is too raw. I'd back Todd to score more, alot more, than Sinclair, Marshall and Parlane.