**Official** England in New Zealand

[paddy11]

Broad's attitude is spot on and if he can add another yard of pace and a touch more movement through the air he will become a very good bowler indeed.
I think the way he bowls is very similiar to Ishant Sharma.

 

[Richard]

As for scalys comments about Monty, so predictable, has he made a post in this thread which hasn't whinged about Monty. His hatred is almost pathological. Bowled well for mine last night, and turned it a bit on a pitch that isn't giving much assistance.

Predictable comments from said member maybe, but nonetheless the only wicket MSP took which could be described as even remotely good bowling was Fleming's, and even that wasn't exactly a ripper.

I'd be very disappointed if I was New Zealand's batsmen, every single one of them threw their wickets away, and not just threw away, threw away really badly. How missed a straight ball; Bell top-edged a Long-Hop, and not just any Long-Hop, one from a spinner; Fleming flashed at one he should've left; and Sinclair and Elliott both got themselves into all sorts of mess with innocuous short deliveries (82mph on an easy-paced pitch like this should never give any batsmen problems with short balls). You can maybe expect one batsman to do that, but if NZ had gone in this evening 2 down, or even 3, they could still I think have retained some measure of hope of saving the game. They'll pretty well certainly need help from the weather if they were to do so now, though.

And weather being weather, given we've barely had a drop of rain throughout the entire series, it'll probably tip it down tomorrow now. Though the forecast might be for bright skies, I haven't taken a look at one.

 

[Richard]

Broad's attitude is spot on and if he can add another yard of pace and a touch more movement through the air he will become a very good bowler indeed.

Yes, very much so - but it's an if. Pretty much everyone seems to take it for granted that it will happen. The only way it'll happen is with some work, and if he gains something in natural attributes. There's not that many people who'll reach 22 years of age and not have come very close to their optimum speed. And he's never going to be particularly good at getting movement through the air with an action like his - there was a comparison to Angus Fraser made by Michael Atherton earlier today, and fantastic bowler though Fraser was, he barely swung a ball throughout his career.

If Broad cannot learn to swing the ball, he like Fraser will always be reliant on there being something in the pitch for him.

 

[paddy11]

Yes, very much so - but it's an if. Pretty much everyone seems to take it for granted that it will happen. The only way it'll happen is with some work, and if he gains something in natural attributes. There's not that many people who'll reach 22 years of age and not have come very close to their optimum speed. And he's never going to be particularly good at getting movement through the air with an action like his - there was a comparison to Angus Fraser made by Michael Atherton earlier today, and fantastic bowler though Fraser was, he barely swung a ball throughout his career.

If Broad cannot learn to swing the ball, he like Fraser will always be reliant on there being something in the pitch for him.

True, but you only need a touch of swing if you can put it in the right areas, Glenn Mcgrath was no Waqar Younis in terms of swing. But he did just enough and with his relentless accuracy its a very dangerous mix. Broad will probably be less effective on unhelpful pitches. But he has great stamina and accuracy so he will never give away many runs. It is inveitable in my eyes that he will put on some pace. He is getting around the mid 80's which is a decent pace but he is only a waif of a lad and if he bulks up and puts on some more muscle on the core he could easily get into the late 80's to touching 90 mark.

 

[Richard]

True, but you only need a touch of swing if you can put it in the right areas, Glenn Mcgrath was no Waqar Younis in terms of swing. But he did just enough and with his relentless accuracy its a very dangerous mix.

Glenn McGrath only rarely swung the ball. He used the seam on helpful surfaces, and used off-cutters and leg-cutters on less favourable ones. If Broad can match that then he really will be quite some prospect. But not many have or will.

Broad will probably be less effective on unhelpful pitches. But he has great stamina and accuracy so he will never give away many runs. It is inveitable in my eyes that he will put on some pace. He is getting around the mid 80's which is a decent pace but he is only a waif of a lad and if he bulks up and puts on some more muscle on the core he could easily get into the late 80's to touching 90 mark.

Not neccesarily. Pace above all else comes from arm speed. There are things that can improve it, but it's certainly far from impossible that Broad has already reached optimum pace.

 

[Goughy]

I love how virtually every discussion on young quicks talks about how they can put on pace and muscle.

It doesnt generally happen that way. Outside their early 20s players generally (though obviously not everytime) slow a little.

Any expectation for a guy (Ishant, Broad, Southee) to put on pace would be an expectation that would buck the trend.

 

[Gloucefan]

I love how virtually every discussion on young quicks talks about how they can put on pace and muscle.

It doesnt generally happen that way. Outside their early 20s players generally (though obviously not everytime) slow a little.

Any expectation for a guy (Ishant, Broad, Southee) to put on pace would be an expectation that would buck the trend.

Sidebottom has bucked the trend then, he has put on both pace and bulk since his mid 20's.

I would be surprised if Broad doesn't gain at least a little pace in future.

 

[Richard]

How nice to see you again for the first time in nearly 6 months.

 

[Gloucefan]

How nice to see you again for the first time in nearly 6 months.

Why thank you.

Have been without internet access for 6 long months. Was so poor after uni I couldn't afford it. Nice to have it back actually.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Right, luncheon & bed for me as I'm back to work on the morrow.

I'm taking 230/3 at stumps, a 50 for Bell & Fleming unbeaten on 50+.

Are we paying that? Spot on about Bell, 8 out on the score & Fleming made his 50, but (happily for us English) not unbeaten.

Sinclair and Elliott both got themselves into all sorts of mess with innocuous short deliveries (82mph on an easy-paced pitch like this should never give any batsmen problems with short balls).

To be fair, with Sinclair at least, Broad was obviously bowling to a plan. Sinclair had got himself out with an awful shot to a short ball in the first innings & duly obliged again.

Loved Bumble's line about "Hook, line & Sinclair" too. Wonder how long he'd been waiting to use it?

 

[grecian]

I love how virtually every discussion on young quicks talks about how they can put on pace and muscle.

It doesnt generally happen that way. Outside their early 20s players generally (though obviously not everytime) slow a little.

Any expectation for a guy (Ishant, Broad, Southee) to put on pace would be an expectation that would buck the trend.

To be fair, I wasn't talking about him putting on pace. I'm more worried about him staying fit. He looks like wind will break him at the moment. Yet maybe it's just an optical illusion, he's bowled some long spells in this series. So one thinks England look at him more of a Fraser-type, not express, yet naggingly accurate for long spells. If that's the case he doesn't need to bowl much over 80mph. I would compare him to a recently retired Aussie bowler who looked slight at first, but I may be accused of blasphemy by Silentstriker.

I'd take a new Fraser anyway, and if he can be a patch on that Oz bloke, I'd be deliriously happy.

 

[silentstriker]

I would compare him to a recently retired Aussie bowler who looked slight at first, but I may be accused of blasphemy by Silentstriker.

Heretic!

I suppose its inevitable though. All classical leg spinners will be reminding people of Warne and all tall stringy fast bowlers will remind people of McGrath, just like all left armers remind people of Akram. I think that's not a bad judge of greatness, when ten years after your retirement, people will still call new young players 'The next X'.

 

[grecian]

Heretic!

I suppose its inevitable though. All classical leg spinners will be reminding people of Warne and all tall stringy fast bowlers will remind people of McGrath, just like all left armers remind people of Akram. I think that's not a bad judge of greatness, when ten years after your retirement, people will still call new young players 'The next X'.

Yeah, I could of compared him to Tim Munton, which is infinitely more likely to be his career path, but I'm guessing a lot of people would of gone "who".

For the record though, Micheal Munday will NOT be the next Shane Warne, and people can quote me on that.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, I could of compared him to Tim Munton, which is infinitely more likely to be his career path, but I'm guessing a lot of people would of gone "who".

For the record though, Micheal Munday will NOT be the next Shane Warne, and people can quote me on that.

Thought I would act on your kind permissions.



Looking forwards to tonight's action. Hoping we wrap it up by lunch really as there is no way I can watch past then. I have a feeling that once this parrtnership is broken, we will be through them really quickly. It pains me to say it, but the ball needs to be kept away from Anderson. I'd rather Bell took the new ball tbh (he's not too shabby anyway IMO lol). When Anderson is great, he's magic, but he's so often not. He's like Harmison except that rather for a purple patch and then a load of dross, he just bowls one great innings then nine dire ones. In fact, that is exactly like Harmison post-04 isn't it?

 

[Goughy]

I'd take a new Fraser anyway, .

Without a doubt. If I was offered Broad being a new Fraser, Id take it in a heartbeat.

 

[GIMH]

You're a BIG fan of Fraser aren't you?

 

[Richard]

Without a doubt. If I was offered Broad being a new Fraser, Id take it in a heartbeat.

Abso-God-damn-lutely.

 

[Richard]

tbh (he's not too shabby anyway IMO lol).

And it was even within the same sentence.

 

[Richard]

To be fair, with Sinclair at least, Broad was obviously bowling to a plan. Sinclair had got himself out with an awful shot to a short ball in the first innings & duly obliged again.

Yeah, obvious plan - and the fact that such a basic plan which should be so straightforward to deal with can work is an indictment on how awful the batting was.

 

[GIMH]

And it was even within the same sentence.