**Official** England in New Zealand

[Bahnz]

That is purely Hadlee's call I heard from the rumors. The only selector out of Dion Nash, Glenn Turner and Braces (covener) showing any enterprise. He's also the ONLY one showing faith in Southee getting picked.

But hello. Look at Taylor after this series. To be honest, do you see us winning any of the tests over there with Sinclair, Bell, Papps and Cummings ANYWAY?

What's the difference? Going through the baptism of fire to find that gem of a player like how we scored Fleming is worth the losses that's inevitable to start with.

I reckon Cumming should certainly come back into the side ahead of someone like Watling or Guptill who have done nothing to suggest they're ready for the step up. People forget too easily that Cumming was one of the few batsmen in SA who didn't look like he was going to lose his wicket at any second. Getting KO'd by Dale Steyn was unfortunate, but plenty of top batsmen get hit on the head. Had the ball been an inch higher, it would've ricoched off his helmet and everyone would've forgotten it in five minutes. I've already made my opinions clear about Sinclair (and it was immensely gratifying to watch skippy not let me down over the course of the summer). And yes, Bell and Papps are rubbish and I wouldn't select them. But just setting an age limit at 25 and saying no one above is eligible for the side isn't the solution. Yes occasionally there are some extraordinary players like Taylor and (hopefully) Ryder who have the talent to succeed at such a young age. But we're a small country. Our talent pool is the smallest in the cricketing world. The way the rest of our cricketers adjust to the top level is through experience and mental development, and the majority simply aren't ready at such a young age.

So I'd select this team for england
How
Cumming
?
Taylor
Ryder (if fit, if not I'll be daring and go with Hay)
the rest pick themselves

I haven't really seen any of the youngsters, so I myself am not really in a great position to commentate. Mark Greatbatch on the DTP said Hay was technically very strong, but besides stats (which are crap for predicting how a player will go in tests), that's all I really have to go on for any of them.

 

[Jamee999]

What's wrong with:

How
Cumming
Ryder
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Southee
Mills
Patel
Martin

?

 

[Flem274*]

I reckon Cumming should certainly come back into the side ahead of someone like Watling or Guptill who have done nothing to suggest they're ready for the step up. People forget too easily that Cumming was one of the few batsmen in SA who didn't look like he was going to lose his wicket at any second. Getting KO'd by Dale Steyn was unfortunate, but plenty of top batsmen get hit on the head. Had the ball been an inch higher, it would've ricoched off his helmet and everyone would've forgotten it in five minutes. I've already made my opinions clear about Sinclair (and it was immensely gratifying to watch skippy not let me down over the course of the summer). And yes, Bell and Papps are rubbish and I wouldn't select them. But just setting an age limit at 25 and saying no one above is eligible for the side isn't the solution. Yes occasionally there are some extraordinary players like Taylor and (hopefully) Ryder who have the talent to succeed at such a young age. But we're a small country. Our talent pool is the smallest in the cricketing world. The way the rest of our cricketers adjust to the top level is through experience and mental development, and the majority simply aren't ready at such a young age.

So I'd select this team for england
How
Cumming
?
Taylor
Ryder (if fit, if not I'll be daring and go with Hay)
the rest pick themselves

I haven't really seen any of the youngsters, so I myself am not really in a great position to commentate. Mark Greatbatch on the DTP said Hay was technically very strong, but besides stats (which are crap for predicting how a player will go in tests), that's all I really have to go on for any of them.

Fulton at three IMO. His technique isn't perfect but he has real class.

IMO Cumming would get owned by Sidebottom unless he does some serious work with Mark O'Neill.

 

[Flem274*]

What's wrong with:

How
Cumming
Ryder
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Southee
Mills
Patel
Martin

?

The bowling is stacked but the batting is wayyyyy too shaky.

 

[Jamee999]

Seems to me that it puts two of your best batsmen at 5 and 7...

 

[Flem274*]

Seems to me that it puts two of your best batsmen at 5 and 7...

I doubt Oram is a number 5 until he gets that front foor forward early in his innings.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Leave Vettori at 8.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Looks like NZ have secured the places of Strauss, Bell and Panesar then. Panesar bowling his usual flat toothless tripe and because of the circumstances hardly concedes any runs and is gifted 3 wickets so his stats are padded out even more than they were already.

What's purpose does Panesar serve in the team other than to be gifted wickets and get tailenders out? Waste of space. Picking him is like saying we're going to settle for being mediocre.

 

[Jamee999]

I doubt Oram is a number 5 until he gets that front foor forward early in his innings.

Yeah, it seems to me that you have 3 good number sixes, but none of them are really right for five.

 

[Leslie1]

I agree Fulton is our top prospect in 06-07 season. Boy was he all class back then. Braces stuffed his mind up (he said so in a news article... I'm hoping this doesn't turn ugly for his selection like Adams).

Fulton was the best batsmen back then with Vettori, with a few big hits from Oram. Since then he's been in every position imaginable, stuffed around the order, and lost form as a result of that.

Crazy.

Bring Fulton back and lets just give him the McMillan treatment. Never gets dropped.

I'm still moody over how close we came to beating a nation that has the longest history in cricket. This is England probably at their lowest form to start the tour with, and we had every chance to get them while they were down during the tests.


My lineup if everybody plays to their potential and form, plus proven solidity against seamers...

1. Jamie How (He doesn't get out playing ridiculous shots when he's in)
2. Some1 who doesn't get out playing ridiculous shots, nor has the tendency to.
3. Peter Fulton (Braces said Fulton is the future number 3 when Fleming goes, and Fulton himself firmly believed that)
4. Taylor - at 23 he's now a 'permanent' fixture. How sad is that.
5. Jesse Ryder - playing a Collingwood type - bats but also bowls a bit.
6. Jacob Oram / another potential all rounder that bats powerfully, NOT Elliot. Please.
7. McCullum - He needs to figure out another method of batting that isn't 20 20.
8. Vettori - I just don't know about this man. Supposed to be a spinner but doesn't do the job more often in day 4-5. When was the last time he rip through the batting lineup like a spinner traditionally do on day 5?
9. Franklin - Mills will break down or retire soon at 32.... Franklin is still just 27.
10. Southee - when he develops another 5-10 kms in speed, plus perfect his stock outswingers, he'll be lethal. Work on his batting techniques please.
11. Martin - 34 this year, when he goes, how the hell do we replace this man? He's been underperforming too. - Maybe we need a thunderbolt like Trent Boult or Sherlock.

 

[Somerset]

Have seen very little of the test as have been travelling over Easter but managed to catch all of day three as I went to the test that day! To see England bat all day... Still not a bad way to spend Monday, even if Fleming was only on the field for two of the three sessions.

Was surprised that they encouraged people to walk onto the outfield and inspect the pitch (roped off 5m either side though) during the lunch break. It would never happen in Auckland. Got a few pictures from the middle which I didn't necessarily expect I would.

Barmy Army were outstanding IMO. With regards to the noise, first session was like watching tennis, second was again semi-tennis like while the third the Army were almost the main attraction! Simply brilliant and brought the match to a new level in those last couple of hours.

England have outclassed us from what I've been able to make from the day I attended and the news reports. Strauss' big ton and Bell's 110, and Sidebottom's seven-for are the differences between the two sides though. New Zealand's batsmen (particularly Fleming) reach 50-70 and give it away, while England have carried on. Sidebottom and Anderson have taken four five-fors in the series together, while Southee recorded the lone one for New Zealand.

Last word on Fleming, I'd love to have seen him play another series in England. Six knocks in the series, all decent contributions but no centuries - it basically sums up Fleming the test cricketer. Mind you, at least hes scored runs (more than Matthew Sinclair can do thats for sure). He most definitely will be missed, just as much for his presence in the team than for his batting.

 

[Manee]

9. Franklin - Mills will break down or retire soon at 32.... Franklin is still just 27.

Franklin has some pretty great statistics. 76 wickets at 28.19 with strike rate of just 47.0 is fantastic. I think that his full swingers and Martin's heavy ball could make a potent partnership.

I think that Broad bowled a fine, long spell. Jimmy Anderson was the far more interesting bowler though. He bowled good pace, but batsmen pick him apart easily. In the last over of the day (IIRC), he had two chances at square leg which could have easily gone to Monty's bucket-like hands. I think that he, more than anyone else, would benefit from going to Lancashire and just working on that stock ball outside the off stump - pushing the batsmen back to a fullish length and catching the outside edge. He can swing it both ways at good pace, but he has not stock ball, nothing to fall back on when the batsman is edging all over or managing to dispatch any wicket taking delivery attempt.

 

[Laurrz]

what do you guys think of Stuart Broad? from what i read following live on cricinfo he bowled one hell of a spell

i recn up there with the quicks of the future... Steyn Ishant Johnson Asif Malinga

 

[Barney Rubble]

Looks like NZ have secured the places of Strauss, Bell and Panesar then. Panesar bowling his usual flat toothless tripe and because of the circumstances hardly concedes any runs and is gifted 3 wickets so his stats are padded out even more than they were already.

What's purpose does Panesar serve in the team other than to be gifted wickets and get tailenders out? Waste of space. Picking him is like saying we're going to settle for being mediocre.

If you'd like to suggest a better English spinner, I'm sure the selectors would be glad to know that there was one out there they'd never heard of. Amazes me how you can still find something (numerous things, in fact) to complain about when your team are just about to secure their first away series win in a decent amount of time. Are you actually capable of enjoying anything?

Anyway, I personally am delighted to see us back to winning ways. Not been able to keep up with this Test much (coverage in France is...well, limited would be putting it nicely), but it's great to see KP back in form and I'm very encouraged by the performances of Sidebottom and Broad. Looking forward to the summer.

 

[Athlai]

I love Taylor TBH, and think he is the best option we have for 3 and I'll keep pressing that again and again. Can he save this Test? Unlikely, but I'd like to see us put up a fight.

Right so off to England.

Bell has managed to save his spot, pack your bags mate, but we certainly need a back up opener. whoever does the best in the warm ups takes the spot.

So what are our options?

The likely:

Cumming, Papps, (evidently) Hay, Guptill

Problems:

Cummings kinda rubbish, Papps has so far shrivelled at the international level, Hay is really a totally untried middle order batsman that is riding purely on potential, and Guptill is the result of the selectors sifting through the most recent domestic scores to find candidates.

So who should we take?

Hay should come IMO, covers both the top and the middle order and we may as well give him a warm up in both positions. Papps is probably the most solid cover opener though and could compliment How nicely. Either that or show his distinct aveargeness, yet I retain as Mark Richardson proved, opening the batting can be more about mental attrition than a dead set solid technique.

Now what are some more hair brained proposals at this top order worries?

Well IMO we could always try McCullum there, the only reason I see not to is fatigue he certainly has the potential to play a lot of Jayasuriya-esque innings up top.
Also Vettori? The man can open, can grind out runs and it would also open up the team to a bit more new blood in places NZ is stronger in. Vettori could do no worse than what our openers often give us.
And finally, Ryder. Does he have what it takes to open? A talent of his nature would be infinitely more valuable to us as an opener than as a middle order batsman.



So the top order...

How
Bell/Papps/Hay/??????
Taylor/Fulton/Ryder

Now that number three spot I have no worries with, I think personally Taylor would get the best out of it, big hundreds, match winning innings. Yet a player like Fulton would be a solid starter for what is likely to be a frail opening wicket. Ryder on the other hand is somewhat an enigma, he has not played Test cricket yet and it would be interesting if he takes the same domestic results to the highest form, he did better than expected in the shorter form of the game so you never know. Yet as I said, no worries there, just the luxury of being spoiled for choice.

How goes the middle order?

4- Taylor/Fulton/Ryder
5- Taylor/Fulton/Ryder
6- Oram

Now we see a common theme reoccuring in my selection of those three batsman in whatever positions, now thats somewhat misleading. If Taylor was at 3 I would certainly want Fulton at 4, yet if Fulton at 3 either Taylor or Ryder could play 4, if Ryder was at 3 then the dynamic would change again.

Yet as it is likely Ryder's going to be a piss head we will have to look at this with the back up in mind. So who's out there?

The player who comes immediately to mind is Hay, this guy should certainly be given his chance and could possibly even cement a position in the team. For securitys sake I would love if Styris could still be a possibility as a little bit of experience would do our vast amounts of potential a great deal of help.

Oram at 6 worries me, solely due to Oram being woefully out of form. Frankly if he continues to play **** he MUST be replaced in that position by someone who will score more runs there, whether by moving Oram lower down the order or dropping him for a batsman (Hay,Ryder). IMO the best option could be promoting Vettori/McCullum as they are both going to score more runs than an out of sorts Oram. Yet hopefully his ODI form will spread to his Test cricket and the spot will no longer be a worry.

7 McCullums spot, he should never have to relinquish this spot unless he is moved up, to either open or cover for Oram. A game finisher and the best keeper in the country at the moment easily.


Now the bowlers are an interesting bunch, I would very much like Vettori to be promoted upon Franklins return as he adds so much with the bat it really opens the team up to those kinds of changes. Vettori is certainly good enough to bat higher than eight, and I can think of no one better than James Franklin to take over that spot and keep the runs flowing.

At full strength and with the current make up of the team our bowling should look like.
Vettori
Franklin
Mills
Martin

Now thats a decent enough attack and some intensely good tail down to 10 (making up for the total lack of batting at 11).

Yet we also have some very decent cover for these spots, Southee, Patel, Mason, Gillespie. Southee looks the goods and deserves Franklins spot in the team, and Patel adds a whole different dynamic to the team. The main problem being we already have a top class spinner in the team who is decidedly better with the bat. So where does this leave the NZ team itself?

Well lets see...

The likely... (full current strength)

How
Bell/Papps
Fulton
Taylor
Ryder/Hay
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Southee/Patel
Mills
Martin

What I want

How
McCullum/Vettori/(Redmond/Hay?)
Taylor (incase of McCullum opening, Fulton)
Fulton
Ryder/Hay
Oram/Hay
McCullum/Vettori
Franklin
Southee/Patel
Mills
Martin/Patel



The players we need to build a team around are: Vettori, McCullum, Taylor, Mills, Oram, How which leaves 5 somewhat interchangeable teams. What we need to do is stick with one of those squads and see it out. If we want to play that second spinner all the time, fine. If we don't (outside of the sub continent) that's alright too, but changing the dynamic of the team every other game will only do it harm.

This should be a very interesting period for New Zealand cricket, and personally my hopes have not been dashed by a disappointing series at home, we showed new talent and resolve to be rid of the tried and failed. A new dawn for the Black Caps.

And with regard to the passing of the previous phase, thank you for the memories Fleming. You will be missed.

 

[Zinzan]

Looks like NZ have secured the places of Strauss, Bell and Panesar then. Panesar bowling his usual flat toothless tripe and because of the circumstances hardly concedes any runs and is gifted 3 wickets so his stats are padded out even more than they were already.

What's purpose does Panesar serve in the team other than to be gifted wickets and get tailenders out? Waste of space. Picking him is like saying we're going to settle for being mediocre.

To be fair having just watched the highlights only Panesar looked a hell of a lot more dangerous than Vettori. The key difference being Panesar actually gets the odd ball to turn.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Bugger. Just like on the 2nd day when I left when How & Fleming were going along great. Bell & Fleming going on great and then........

66 from Fleming. Typical Fleming, a bit sad to see him go while he is still our best batsman.

 

[headhunter]

Monthy such a gun.

 

[Richard]

what do you guys think of Stuart Broad? from what i read following live on cricinfo he bowled one hell of a spell

Really, people have hopelessly over-stated how good that spell was. It was a good effort to bowl, what, 11 overs (may even have been more, I was fairly tired by that time and might've lost count) off the reel, as it always is. But neither of his wickets were remotely good bowling, and as so often people are beginning to get overexcited about a young English seam-bowler. I get this sinking feeling every time. Sure, one day we'll get lucky and the overexcitement will turn-out to be faith well placed, but it sure as is an oversized leap, every time.

 

[grecian]

I rate Broad myself. Seems to have all the attributes. Yet I slightly agree with Richard , it's a bit early to tell. It will be interesting to see if he can stay fit and well, he just looks so slight, yet he could fill in. He would certainly help Englands tail-problems, and the only way Flintoff can bat at 6 is if we had a decent number 8, as with Giles, the only time Freddie batted there with effect.

Rate him higher then Tremlett though, who people have raved about one or two good performances, and yet has proven to me he's injury prone. I hope he could sort it out though, we certainly need some fresh bowling options. Lost patience with Anderson, doesn't have it mentally I'm afraid.

As for scalys comments about Monty, so predictable, has he made a post in this thread which hasn't whinged about Monty. His hatred is almost pathological. Bowled well for mine last night, and turned it a bit on a pitch that isn't giving much assistance.