Harmison - underachiever or overrated ?

[wpdavid]

Boycott basically said that Harmison has been disappointing and that people were fed up waiting and maybe Harmison needs to go back to County cricket and there is the possibility he may never reach his expected potential in Tests.

Hardly anything controversial there and nothing demanding the type of response Harmison gave.

Interestingly, Harmison attacked the man rather than the comments as he has no ammunition in that area. Hard to argue against something when its right. Far easier to abuse the person saying it.

Piss weak effort from Harmison.

Very well put.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Harmy's response doesn't speak wonders of his mental state currently, but (and this may be me clutching at straws) the last time an English test player went public with this kind of "Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me" (© Kenneth Williams) whinge was Ash Giles (linky-poo) between the 1st & 2nd Ashes tests of 2005, so hopefully it heralds a similar golden age...

 

[Richard]

BTW, Richard, you may be referring to Neil Harvey, not Ian Chappell. For all I know though, both may be barred from the Australian dressing room (small wonder in Harvey's case, for he is one of those irrational 'my era was the best' types).

Yeah, could easily be both, but I've tended to notice it more with Chappell, as I've read of him talking about a time when about 6 or 7 current players confronted him about the matter and he said "there's this little knob on the TV, and if you don't like what I'm saying you can turn the volume down".

As I say, if that's the way pundits want to be, the "I'll say what I think and I don't give a @$£% whose feelings it hurts" attitude, that's their choice, but it's a bit disappointing from my POV and certainly not the way I'd want to be if I was fortunate enough to be one whose views received widescale publication.

 

[iamdavid]

Boycott basically said that Harmison has been disappointing and that people were fed up waiting and maybe Harmison needs to go back to County cricket and there is the possibility he may never reach his expected potential in Tests.

Hardly anything controversial there and nothing demanding the type of response Harmison gave.

Interestingly, Harmison attacked the man rather than the comments as he has no ammunition in that area. Hard to argue against something when its right. Far easier to abuse the person saying it.

Piss weak effort from Harmison.

Agree totally.

Boycott's comments were perfectly proffesional and above-the-belt and made perfect sense to me.

Harmison simply venting his frustration...

Harmison to chuck a hissy-fit and retire from all cricket in 3...2....1...

 

[lord brown]

Harmison is the biggest enigma in world cricket and i think he has lost his game since England lost Troy Cooley.

Sad but there are better bowlers around now and he deserved to be dropped.

Wether he can get back in the England side i do not know but if he could have found some consistancy he could have been Englands best ever bowler

 

[Richard]

Harmison is the biggest enigma in world cricket and i think he has lost his game since England lost Troy Cooley.

Was quite a while before that TBH. Indeed, whether he ever truly "had" his game is highly questionable. I'm far from convinced he was ever totally, truly in control of his own game, aside from the fact that short period of 7 Tests in early 2004 was IMO much more bad batting than good bowling.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

When you start hitting back at the critics with words instead of actions you're doomed to failure.

 

[aussie]

Was quite a while before that TBH. Indeed, whether he ever truly "had" his game is highly questionable. I'm far from convinced he was ever totally, truly in control of his own game, aside from the fact that short period of 7 Tests in early 2004 was IMO much more bad batting than good bowling.

Come on man, those 7 test in 2004 he was truly brilliant claiming his bowling feats were down to bad batting instead of his own good bowling is totally untrue.

His 7/12 which i had the great honour of being in Jamaica ATT was the most lethal spell of pace bowling that i've seen in my time of watching test cricket bettered only by Akhtar spell vs AUS in 2002.

He was truly on top of his in those 7 test if you want to use the arguement that WI were an average team well, the Kiwis weren't & the batting line-up they had during that series was easily the best Kiwi middle order probably since their glory days of the mid to late 80s & he gave them hell as well.

 

[Richard]

Look at the wickets. Don't just look at the figures.

Most wickets were bad strokes. Not good deliveries, bad strokes. It's not in the slightest surprising it did not continue.

 

[aussie]

Look at the wickets. Don't just look at the figures.

Most wickets were bad strokes. Not good deliveries, bad strokes. It's not in the slightest surprising it did not continue.

, don't take my laughter too seriously its just funny hearing you tell someone this after many of us on CW have tried to engrave this idea into your head over time.

And i remember those test very well i remember more good deliveries than poor batting in those 7 test.

Not that i actually agree with the idea that a bowlers good figures should be undermined because he got tail-end wickets or it is percieved that batsmen got out to bad strokes because some bowlers like McGrath & Hadlee great metronomes of the game who aren't blessed with the sheer pace of other great quicks prey on this working a batsman over then forcing him into an error in judgement i.e a bad stroke. Thats equally as good as bowling a toe crushing yorker yo..

 

[Richard]

Working batsmen over is good. Bowling nothing deliveries and having bad strokes played at them is not.

When I've got the time again I'll go through each of the 44 wickets and show how few of them were actually good bowling.

 

[aussie]

No stress, whenever you ready playa you run that 411 by me..

 

[FBU]

Harmison's wickets by batting order

Top Order (1-3) - 64 wickets (30.2%)
Middle Order (4-7) - 80 wickets (37.7%)
Tail (8-11) - 68 wickets (32.1%)

Bowlers liking the top order -
McGrath 40%--34--25%
Vaas 41.6--35.9--23.3
Donald 39.1--34.8--26.1
Hoggard 39.1--35.9--25
Sidebottom 39.6--37.7--22.6

Bowlers liking the tail -
Akram - 31.9--33.1--35
Steyn - 33.3--35.2--31.4

 

[Black_Warrior]

Harmison..under acheiver or overrated??

Lets see..

Absolutely phenomenal in West Indies 2004

Below average in South Africa 2004

Average in Ashes 2005

Below average in Super series 2005

Crap in Pakistan 2005

Good in England against Pakistan 2006

Crap in Ashes 2006

Crap in New Zealand now..

I might have missed a few series here and there

But I think we can safely conclude that Harmison is an average bowler at best..hence when he is rated as one of the best in the world...he is being overrated!

Nasser Hussain summed it up the best during the South Africa series in England after a hard day of getting battered by Kallis..

"He came to South Africa, the number one bowler in the world, he leaves not even in the top 10"

 

[Gloucefan]

Maybe he's overrated but nearly as much as James Anderson imo. There are a couple of others I'd totally axe from the England side before him (not not necessarily centrally contracted players but those on the fringe).

I think the mentally soft tag does apply. If it didn't he would endlessly bowl no-ball, wide etc in county cricket, he doesn't. I don't think he has ever bowled to 2nd slip in county cricket. He's a quality county standard bowler who unless he's at his very best probably isn't quite good enough to face the good Test sides. He's not as bad as some have said and certainly not totally useless.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Think "confidence" is a better way of putting it than "mentally soft". He seems just the sort of guy having listened to him who thrives when away from the spotlight as he can relax.

 

[Craig]

Steven's reply:

There are some former England greats whose opinions are respected by the current players; not just because they have been here and done what we do, but because we know that when they criticise they do not do so just for the sake of their own ego. Then there is Goughy.

No one can dispute the man could bat and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but over the years he has developed an equally well deserved reputation as someone who thrives on kicking a man when he is down.

Goughy has had several digs at me over the years, questioning, among other things, my desire and commitment.

On occasions, there may have been a measure of sense in what he has said and I wouldn't normally respond because, frankly, I have not wanted to get into a war of words with the man.

But enough is enough. His remarks about me this week have gone beyond what is acceptable and it is time someone stood up to him and told him so.

I didn't agree with what our former coach Duncan Fletcher did when revealing certain information about Andrew Flintoff in his book. But I cannot find fault with what he wrote about Goughy.

For the fact is that within the England dressing room his views are regarded as a joke. People who only have a passing interest in the game hear the famous Goughy's Yorkshire accent and may think it gives some status to his opinions.

But inside the dressing room he has no status, he is just an accent, some sort of caricature of a professional Yorkshireman.

Indeed, quite a few of us cringe whenever he comes near. Why? Here's why.

Earlier this week two of the current England batsmen related their feelings towards Goughy and how he works.

Their shared experience was that when things weren't going well for them all they heard from Goughy was him nailing them in the newspapers or on radio or TV, then, if they made a century or played well, he would come up to them full of compliments and try to ingratiate himself with them.

This is what one of the players said and he was speaking for both of them: "We can't believe Goughy. When you're struggling he abuses you in the media and completely ignores you in social situations. Then, if you come up with a performance, his attitude changes totally. Suddenly he wants to be your best mate, sometimes even to somehow take some credit for the improvement. Thanks, but no thanks."

I'm not the only England player who has been forced to take it in the neck from Goughy and I won't be the last.

And I wonder what Australia's Shaun Tait thought recently, when, after announcing he was taking an indefinite break from the game due to physical and emotional exhaustion, Goughy reacted by claiming he should have shown more desire to work through his problems.

You get the feeling that Goughy is an insecure man who needs to be heard.

Well, Goughy, you've had your say about me more than enough times.

Now I'm having mine. You say that if England give me another central contract come October that would be waste of money. To me, you are a waste of space.

 

[Richard]

I think the mentally soft tag does apply. If it didn't he would endlessly bowl no-ball, wide etc in county cricket, he doesn't. I don't think he has ever bowled to 2nd slip in county cricket.

He has, believe me he has.

Harmison's domestic figures are not remotely outstanding, there's no way he should've been picked for Tests when he was. He was clearly woefully below par, and was picked simply because they hoped he'd get better, which, well, he just hasn't really. Very briefly in early 2004, and then it was back to the usual.

Harmison simply does not possess the ability to put the ball in the right place, and despite a long career now has never acquired it for more than a game or two (once or twice a few more) at a time.

 

[Gloucefan]

He has, believe me he has.

Harmison's domestic figures are not remotely outstanding, there's no way he should've been picked for Tests when he was.

Didn't see this...

It should be taken into account that he hasn't played much county cricket since he became an England player. He hasn't exactly had much of a chance to improve on those stats. He bowled very well early last season.

Vaughan's county stats don't exactly set the world on fire but I don't doubt for a second they would be more impressive if he had played more county cricket.

I feel that if Harmison was to be axed from the England set-up now he would be very successful in county cricket.

Maybe I just feel sorry for the guy though...he's just so likeable

 

[Richard]

Heck, I feel incredibly sorry for him - doubly so since that Hussain interview a month or so ago (which I STILL haven't managed to upload to computer and hence YouTube, the new driver I purchased being recommended against by my Windows system for the moment). He's unquestionably an exceptionally good-natured fellow.

But really, I don't feel he'd have been THAT successful at domestic cricket had he played it regularly between 2003 and 2007. The few games he has played have indeed produced exceptional results. But that's just 18 games in 5 seasons, and we've seen the nonsense he's mostly bowled in Tests in that time. And I don't think for a second that this would produce much in domestic cricket either.

His record up to his Test selection in 2002 was decidedly mediocre, and he shouldn't have played Tests when he did. Had he not, and kept producing his up-to-2002 performances, no-one would've looked twice at him, he'd just have been another average domestic bowler.