IPL criticisms

[pasag]

The other thread is for discussion of the IPL itself, for stuff like squad, match discussion and other news related to the IPL so people who enjoy the new competition can discuss it there without having to argue its merits constantly. This thread is to discuss the concept, whether it will ruin cricket (or improve it) and its general direness (or gunness).

 

[Cevno]

I think you should edit the thread title or should i start a new thresd for it's positives?

 

[pasag]

I think you should edit the thread title or should i start a new thresd for it's positives?

You're more than welcome to use this thread to counter the critique. It was started because fans of the IPL where unhappy that the general thread was being brought down because of the arguments over the worthiness of the concept itself. This thread was made to allow opponents a chance to voice their concerns over the new format but can also include arguments of why it isn't dire and its merits, etc.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I think, rather as with Packer, some good can potentially come of the IPL but that it will be accident rather than design.

If it means a few less ODIs and a rethink of the ICC's less-than-glorious 5 year plan so much the better. If, as looks quite possible, it decimates the playing stocks of the poorer boards (NZ & the Windies looks particularly vulnerbale in this respect) something will have to be done. Let's be realistic tho: the talent will follow the money, so if cricket is to even maintain 8 vaguely competitive teams, the IPL will have to be accomodated into the calendar.

The negatives are rather more obvious: the soullessness of the whole enterprise & the very obvious fact it's a money-making exercise. Nothing like a few hundred thousand dollars for curing fatigue, eh?

 

[NZTailender]

No, it's an entertainment exercise. No-one would make money from advertising and sponsorship if no-one was going to watch it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

No, it's an entertainment exercise. No-one would make money from advertising and sponsorship if no-one was going to watch it.

Sports-entertainment? What a marvellous concept. Harbhajan has been practicing his trash-talking already, I believe.

But no, you're right. The cricketers are going over to entertain the Indian sporting public with scant regard for the several hundred thousand dollars' recompense they'll receive. Theirs is essentially an act of the very purest altruism.

 

[albo97056]

Is it true that vettori oram etc may not tour england this summer because of the IPL? If so how can the boards endorse it? Its crazy....

 

[NZTailender]

Sports-entertainment? What a marvellous concept. Harbhajan has been practicing his trash-talking already, I believe.

But no, you're right. The cricketers are going over to entertain the Indian sporting public with scant regard for the several hundred thousand dollars' recompense they'll receive. Theirs is essentially an act of the very purest altruism.

Did I say the players were motivated by providing entertainment for the Indian crowd? no I didn't. Obviously most of them are in this for the money and not about entertaining, but the fact is this tournament is going to entertain. Thats what the whole money business is about here. People will watch it, because they want to watch it (in India, at least. And after all, this is an Indian league, run by Indians, with Indian money) and with people watching, comes exposure, exposure for sponsors. So by paying the worlds best cricketers top dollar, the entertainment factor goes up, because simply, people in India would like to watch guys like Lee, Symonds, Sangakkara etc. playing together in their country.

I am not naive. I don't believe for one second any player who says they're doing this for the cricket. But don't say it's "only" about the money because people will be entertained by it. And if you're not entertained by cricket, then why bother watching?

 

[NZTailender]

Is it true that vettori oram etc may not tour england this summer because of the IPL? If so how can the boards endorse it? Its crazy....

There's talk they may miss tour/warm up matches.

 

[bugssy]

There's talk they may miss tour/warm up matches.

i was watching eng v nz on fox and they where saying that the ipl players if they play the ipl will miss the start of the eng tour and would meet up with the rest of the squad, i am sorry but that is crazy.


i would not be suprised if national cricketing bodies start telling the players well if you play ipl and miss out on your countries games, dont bother coming back.

in saying that most of the players going to play in the ipl could just play 6 weeks a year and do nothing for the rest and live comfortably.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Nothing like a few hundred thousand dollars for curing fatigue, eh?

Too true (Y)

 

[Richard]

Ah, excellent, been waiting for a thread like this, hadn't bothered reading the other one as I'd presumed no-one was saying this.

I think, rather as with Packer, some good can potentially come of the IPL but that it will be accident rather than design.

The IPL and WSC have approximately zero in common, really. Packer and Chandra are much more comparable, virtually identical in fact, but I think far more people than not are agreed that the sooner the ICL withers and dies the better. Just as the game would probably have been better-off if the same had happened to WSC.

I obviously won't take any interest in the competition at all, because it's Twenty20 which I don't care in the slightest for, but I don't object in principle to the idea. Cricketers earning some massive cash-cow for a short period's work isn't a bad thing at all. All that's needed is for a window to be carved-out to fit the thing in. That's not a bad thing either: the international calender has been bloated for years and years and if something forces a break (and let's face it: playing a few Twenty20 matches isn't exactly going to strain too many people, it's virtually a working holiday) sometime around March, this can only be a good thing.

The problem, obviously, will be if those responsible for the IPL start thinking they're bigger than the international game (and let's remember: without the international game, the IPL would have no raison d'etre) which is certainly not beyond the realms of the conceivable. Or if people start trying to fight the thing, which would be fruitless and could only cause considerable trouble.

If either of those happened, the game could eat itself and have to be rebuilt from scratch.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Did I say the players were motivated by providing entertainment for the Indian crowd? no I didn't. Obviously most of them are in this for the money and not about entertaining, but the fact is this tournament is going to entertain. Thats what the whole money business is about here. People will watch it, because they want to watch it (in India, at least. And after all, this is an Indian league, run by Indians, with Indian money) and with people watching, comes exposure, exposure for sponsors. So by paying the worlds best cricketers top dollar, the entertainment factor goes up, because simply, people in India would like to watch guys like Lee, Symonds, Sangakkara etc. playing together in their country.

I am not naive. I don't believe for one second any player who says they're doing this for the cricket. But don't say it's "only" about the money because people will be entertained by it. And if you're not entertained by cricket, then why bother watching?

I didn't suggest people won't be entertained by it. Clearly lots of wealthy institutions are banking on that to reap the rewards of their investments. That doesn't mean it has merit in itself tho. People find professional wrestling entertaining.

When a player walks out with the three lions on his chest or a baggy green cap on his head one might reasonably think he's fulfilling a long-held ambition & that he's joining a noble fraternity with history and tradition. He may be handsomely rewarded for his efforts, but that's only as it should be. If that same player turns his back on international cricket (and it's already being suggested that some of the NZ players will miss the early stages of their tour up here) to play for the Mumbai Mercenaries, it sort of looks more of a solely fiscal arrangement to me.

The IPL and WSC have approximately zero in common, really. Packer and Chandra are much more comparable, virtually identical in fact, but I think far more people than not are agreed that the sooner the ICL withers and dies the better. Just as the game would probably have been better-off if the same had happened to WSC.

I obviously won't take any interest in the competition at all, because it's Twenty20 which I don't care in the slightest for, but I don't object in principle to the idea. Cricketers earning some massive cash-cow for a short period's work isn't a bad thing at all. All that's needed is for a window to be carved-out to fit the thing in. That's not a bad thing either: the international calender has been bloated for years and years and if something forces a break (and let's face it: playing a few Twenty20 matches isn't exactly going to strain too many people, it's virtually a working holiday) sometime around March, this can only be a good thing.

The problem, obviously, will be if those responsible for the IPL start thinking they're bigger than the international game (and let's remember: without the international game, the IPL would have no raison d'etre) which is certainly not beyond the realms of the conceivable. Or if people start trying to fight the thing, which would be fruitless and could only cause considerable trouble.

If either of those happened, the game could eat itself and have to be rebuilt from scratch.

Apart from being massive sea changes in the way cricket is organized & increasing players' earning power, obviously.

The IPL is nominally sanctioned in a way the WSC wasn't, but I doubt the ICC is really that enamoured by the idea. Rather that (with typical bravery) they don't want to risk pissing off their main revenue source.

I don't think anyone is suggesting cricketers earning more money is a bad thing either; someone is making money out of the sport & I'm personally more comfortable with the blokes who actually perform getting it. The problem may come if the IPL (a division of the BCCI, essentially) starts to act with the intransigence shown recently by that august body. As I suggested earlier, the players will follow the money. The worst case scenario is that this could become the "major league" of cricket, with tests & ODIs being the equivalent of the minors where the up-and-comers compete to show off their talents.

 

[NUFAN]

Why do they bother making it only 4 players from outside India allowed per XI? There are going to be situations when very good established international cricketers will be on the sideline when a young Indian who could be out of form is taking his place.

Do they really need India's 56 best players (7playerx8teams) to take part?

 

[Manee]

Why do they bother making it only 4 players from outside India allowed per XI? There are going to be situations when very good established international cricketers will be on the sideline when a young Indian who could be out of form is taking his place.

Do they really need India's 56 best players (7playerx8teams) to take part?

It is a great opportunity for young Indians to get to play with established stars. It is what the ICL always wanted to be.

However, if you look at the teams, there are not that many buys from outside India:
Jaipur - 5
Chennai - 7
Mumbai - 5
Bangalore - 5
Hyderabad - 8
Mohali - 5
Kolkata - 7
Delhi - 7

Taking into account international commitments and the need to rotate players due to the long and hectic schedule, there will be not much of the afroementioned situation of an international star sitting out many matches for an out of form Indian.

 

[Goughy]

Ive no issues with this league and I hope it works (like I do whenever people invest in a new venture).

However, I dont quite see its purpose or relevance unless its prime aim is to kill the ICL.

If it is supposedly the place to see the best players then why only have 4 International stars? It is essentially a league of Indian players and that leads into the second part, which is, if it is to promote and enrichen average Indian cricketers then why is so much money being spent on overseas players?
Its a mechanical endevour with created new teams with a heavy corporate links and no history pulling the whole thing together to give it any substance apart from the players invovled.

It really does seem to be struggling to define itself. Lots of gaudy numbers are being thown around but given the rules for selection, the potential unavailability of players, the short season, and the new nature of the teams it does seem to come across as glorified exhibition games with little at stake (apart from money) with teams essentially made up of Indian domestic cricketers.

There is nothing wrong with anything I have mentioned, apart from the hype seems to undermining peoples assessment of what the nuts and bolts of this are.

Good luck to all involved but the profile is getting overly excessive for what is essentially a very short but above average domestic comp that has a lot of money involved but little of it is guaranteed and there is little idea of who will be playing from one game to the next.

 

[NUFAN]

It is a great opportunity for young Indians to get to play with established stars. It is what the ICL always wanted to be.

However, if you look at the teams, there are not that many buys from outside India:
Jaipur - 5
Chennai - 7
Mumbai - 5
Bangalore - 5
Hyderabad - 8
Mohali - 5
Kolkata - 7
Delhi - 7

Taking into account international commitments and the need to rotate players due to the long and hectic schedule, there will be not much of the afroementioned situation of an international star sitting out many matches for an out of form Indian.

OK good point.

However, I don't know how many people in other countries besides India would really be hanging out to watch 3 or 4 International players and basically 2/3 of a domestic team, play day after day for a month and a bit.

It'll be good to watch some days I suppose.

 

[Janus]

Alot of people seem to have a serious problem with both the IPL and ICL but you have to ask if this is an inevitable event considering the ICC's dire handling of cricket in general. The ICC let the situation evolve where multiple codes have developed and elitism in an increasingly global sport has not been tackled. For the integrity of cricket as a whole the ICC must be removed and the ICL and IPL are the first step in this direction.

Cricket is bizarre in the sense that it has three codes(First-class, ODI, T20) That are played by the same players in a largely international capacity. The main problem with this is that the schedule is overcrowded. Splitting cricket into two Or three different governing bodies with a a separate team for each format is the only way forward.

That's one concept but in all honesty I'd prefer if ODI and T20 was played in Tournaments like the IPL and ICL with only the World cups being the international participation in the codes. That would leave The International side plenty of time for First-class cricket. In this case both sides win as the avant-garde get plenty of entertainment, just not on an international level; and the traditionalists get more test matches.

 

[silentstriker]

I didn't suggest people won't be entertained by it. Clearly lots of wealthy institutions are banking on that to reap the rewards of their investments. That doesn't mean it has merit in itself tho. People find professional wrestling entertaining.

When a player walks out with the three lions on his chest or a baggy green cap on his head one might reasonably think he's fulfilling a long-held ambition & that he's joining a noble fraternity with history and tradition. He may be handsomely rewarded for his efforts, but that's only as it should be. If that same player turns his back on international cricket (and it's already being suggested that some of the NZ players will miss the early stages of their tour up here) to play for the Mumbai Mercenaries, it sort of looks more of a solely fiscal arrangement to me.

So what do you think of people from other countries playing NBA, EPL, NFL, etc? You wouldn't want those mercenaries playing in a domestic tournament, would you? Of course its a fiscal arrangement for the players...who cares?

Will they score runs and take wickets? Yes.
Will people enjoy watching? We'll see.

If both of those are true, then its cricket just like any other form, as far as I'm concerned. I'm seeing it because I want to see some of the best go up against each other (Ponting vs. Lee, Kumble vs. Tendulkar, Murali vs. Sangakarra and things like that). I hope I'll enjoy it, and if it entertains the public, which is the point of every sport, it's good enough for me.

Even if its bad, I'll take these games over international ODIs and T20s anyway, as these are structured and all the clubs are on a more even footing.

 

[silentstriker]

that has a lot of money involved but little of it is guaranteed and there is little idea of who will be playing from one game to the next.

That may be true for some of the internationals from Australia, but countries like SL get to play pretty much every match. Plus all the indian domestic guys get to play every match. Together, they make up the vast majority of the squad and the league. So perhaps 1-2 spots will be fluid, but there is very much a solid idea of who'll be playing the every game.