subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
How would you rate Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting, either as batsmen and as captains? I would probably give Ponting an edge over the others in terms of both.
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Waugh, Border or Ponting?
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Waugh, Ponting, Border in batting.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
You've left the bloke who was the best Australian captain of the last 20 years out!
As batsmen I'd take Punter in a flash. As captains it's a harder call; I'd probably give it to Border who grew into a role that was something of a poisoned chalice when he acceded. Ponting has improved out of sight as a captain, but his occasional utter gracelessness loses him marks.
As batsmen I'd take Punter in a flash. As captains it's a harder call; I'd probably give it to Border who grew into a role that was something of a poisoned chalice when he acceded. Ponting has improved out of sight as a captain, but his occasional utter gracelessness loses him marks.
PhoenixFire
International Coach
Agree with this.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
We are tempting one of those ``whose faced better bowling attack arguments`` here again. But what the hell.
Ponting i would say easily would be the most naturally talented batsmen of the three followed by Waugh given that at his best as a batsman he was almost as good as Lara & Tendulkar then Border.
Captaincy Border wins easily.
Ponting i would say easily would be the most naturally talented batsmen of the three followed by Waugh given that at his best as a batsman he was almost as good as Lara & Tendulkar then Border.
Captaincy Border wins easily.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, Taylor better than all 3 as captains. As captains, all 3 were pretty good, but all had things which held them back. I'd say Border, Waugh, Ponting.
As batsmen, I've pretty much decided I'm going to give-up rating Ponting between now and the end of his career.
As batsmen, Border vs Waugh is such a difficult one. Border played 156 Tests with not that much deterioration in performance at either start or finish, which is a quite astonishing performance, his average hovered a few marks over 50 for most of his time. Stephen Waugh "only" played 90-odd during the time he was any good, but when he was good, he was better than Border, averaging 61 in that time. Waugh also played 40-odd at the start of his career where he was mostly fairly average, but this doesn't overtly matter to me.
I'll go for Border > Waugh, but only by the slenderest of margins. Ponting I've always thought, as everyone knows, was good, maybe somewhere close to as good as the aforementioned two, but probably not quite in their class. But as I say - let's see where he finishes.
As batsmen, I've pretty much decided I'm going to give-up rating Ponting between now and the end of his career.
As batsmen, Border vs Waugh is such a difficult one. Border played 156 Tests with not that much deterioration in performance at either start or finish, which is a quite astonishing performance, his average hovered a few marks over 50 for most of his time. Stephen Waugh "only" played 90-odd during the time he was any good, but when he was good, he was better than Border, averaging 61 in that time. Waugh also played 40-odd at the start of his career where he was mostly fairly average, but this doesn't overtly matter to me.
I'll go for Border > Waugh, but only by the slenderest of margins. Ponting I've always thought, as everyone knows, was good, maybe somewhere close to as good as the aforementioned two, but probably not quite in their class. But as I say - let's see where he finishes.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Interesting to see how much the views vary thus far. I would have thought Ponting would have established himself far ahead of the other two, but it seems that's not the case.
Leadership is not what you achieve when the going is good, it's what you're able to do when the chips are down and only Border experienced that and rose from it. Taylor, Waugh and Ponting were handed winning teams on a silver platter.
Batting too, I'd lean towards Border. Naturally less gifted, he was tenacious at the crease and only he experienced the WIndian pace battery at it's most explosive. In one series his average was twice that of the next best batsman.
So, he leads on both counts in my book
Batting too, I'd lean towards Border. Naturally less gifted, he was tenacious at the crease and only he experienced the WIndian pace battery at it's most explosive. In one series his average was twice that of the next best batsman.
So, he leads on both counts in my book
Burgey
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I'd take Waugh as a skipper over both, because after the Madras tie, the only time AB declared was at customs, and I think Ponting's most challenging time as skipper has only just begun.
As batsmen, I love both Ponting and Waugh - both really, really good players, but I'd have AB over both of them.
As batsmen, I love both Ponting and Waugh - both really, really good players, but I'd have AB over both of them.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Ponting as a batsman. I always rated Waugh ahead but I think Ponting in the last two years or so has been simply the best batsman I have ever seen. Never before have I watched someone and been genuinely surprised when they got out short of a century. Waugh was an amazing batsmen for a time though. His performance in the West Indies in 1995 is probably my favourite individual batting display in any series. Border was also great but a short distance behind, IMO.
As a captain, I think it's hard to rate someone if you haven't watched them, because captaincy has so many intangibles. I'd rate Waugh marginally ahead of Ponting as a captain, but I didn't watch much of Border's career live so I can't comment there.
Ponting the best fielder of the three, and Waugh the best bowler.
As a captain, I think it's hard to rate someone if you haven't watched them, because captaincy has so many intangibles. I'd rate Waugh marginally ahead of Ponting as a captain, but I didn't watch much of Border's career live so I can't comment there.
Ponting the best fielder of the three, and Waugh the best bowler.
Top_Cat
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Waugh never took 11 in a match against the WI.Ponting the best fielder of the three, and Waugh the best bowler.
Rating Ponting as the best fielder is a big call. Not sure who is because they were all so good. AB essentially invented short mid-wicket and hitting the stumps from inside the circle plus was a great catcher in the ring, Waugh at gully was without peer and pulled off some freakish stops at point/cover-point/gully whereas Ponting doesn't hit the stumps as often as he used to but latches onto just about everything when in front of the wicket and drops very few behind. Too close to call for sure in my opinion but perhaps you're right about Ponting, if only for versatility (he has a far stronger arm than either AB or Waugh and can field in the outfield as well as anyone).
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