Australia's tour to Pakistan unlikely

[social]

This is an interesting view on the situation from someone that has been in Pakistan recently

http://timesonline.typepad.com/the_doosra/2008/02/should-australi.html

And an interesting response by the author to a point made by a reader

"I'd love to go and cover the games if they were on, but I'm pretty sure I'd be dissuaded from doing so by those I love."

 

[silentstriker]

Yea:

I don't recall any cricket tours of the UK being cancelled, even in an era when IRA bombs nearly wiped out Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet in Brighton. You can't help but think that Pakistan is paying the price for glib stereotypes coined primarily by the international media.

If political assassinations are the yardstick for abandoning cricket tours, then England should have left India within days of arriving in 1984-85, when both Indira Gandhi and the British Commissioner fell prey to extremist bullets. Instead, David Gower's team stayed on and won the series 2-1, their only success in India in the past three decades.

It's only right that players are given the freedom to choose whether or not they'll undertake a tour of this nature, but I'm sure I won't be the only one left with a sour taste in the mouth if the same Australian contingent arrives en masse in India for the Indian Premier League. Perhaps what Pakistan needs is a few fat-cat businessmen and actors waving the dollars about.

 

[social]

Yea:

Sure but he goes on to say that he would be stopped from going by his family because of the perceived risk.

Why should Australian families be any different?

Look, I want to see the tour going ahead (and personally couldnt care less about the IPL) but I do understand why the players arent keen

Last night I was watching CNN and the correspondent was throwing around sound bites like "country is a war zone" etc etc. Anyone cricketer watching that in Australia would simply not come, it's as simple as that

 

[silentstriker]

Sure but he goes on to say that he would be stopped from going by his family because of the perceived risk.

Why should Australian families be any different?

They shouldn't. And I've said from the beginning the players should have a choice. But that fear is irrational, and the board should still have a tour. People who don't want to go can be replaced.

 

[jeevan]

They shouldn't. And I've said from the beginning the players should have a choice. But that fear is irrational, and the board should still have a tour. People who don't want to go can be replaced.

There would be a concern about precedents for players picking and choosing tours if this happened without penalty to the drop outs. Suddenly, many top players will be 'afraid' of Bangladesh as well, for e.g. (Though such type of objections have happened before - McGill not touring Zimbabwe?)

I agree that the fear is a bit irrational in this case (especially since polling in Pakistan are closing up as we speak, and no particular calamity befell even the common folk in Pakistan - really hope I am not jinxing some body here). But you simply cant control or mandate what people think about unfamiliar places and events. (Which is why the analogy with England is inappropriate for the Australian team).

 

[Richard]

This is an interesting view on the situation from someone that has been in Pakistan recently

http://timesonline.typepad.com/the_doosra/2008/02/should-australi.html

And an interesting response by the author to a point made by a reader

"I'd love to go and cover the games if they were on, but I'm pretty sure I'd be dissuaded from doing so by those I love."

If those he loved were ill-informed, undoubtedly so. If they were well-informed, perhaps not.

 

[Burgey]

The problem with all the toing and froing re. media reports etc is that CA is far more likely to take it's advice from the Department of Foreign Affairs, than any media outlet in either country.

Here is a link to the DFAT web site re. travelling to Pakistan:

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Pakistan

It doesn't exactly paint a rosy picture. CA is far more likely, I would have thought, to listen to it's Department of Foreign Affairs than to any media reports, be they pro- or anti-touring, given that they have an obligation concerning the safety of their employees.

I want the tour to go ahead, but I can also understand the players being worried about it. I mean, from their perspective they are being offered security as per a head of state (apparently), yet look what happened to Benazir Bhutto.

Of course the two are very differnet scenarios, but I can understand them being reluctant to go.

By the same token, I believe that if they do not tour, they ought not be allowed to compete in the IPL, which I understand is on at the same time.

 

[Pratters]

Bullcrap that Cricket Australia is deciding not to tour as a board. I don't have a huge problem with individual players deciding against it. They have the danger of allowing some one else to take their spots and if the danger to their life is really felt that much by them, so be it. The board deciding to not send the team is really dire though.

- Australia A and Australia under-19 toured Pakistan not that long ago if I am not wrong.

- Just before India's historic 2004 tour to Pakistan, there was an assasination attempt at Musharaff and yet India toured the country. If India, the worst enemy Pakistan has had historically, can tour Pakistan and be safe, surely, other boards do not have much ground to cancel such tours.

What saddens me most is that the PCB is not a very powerful board and is tolerating this bull**** from Australia. They may not have much choice too sadly.

Who would compensate the PCB for the compensations they might have to pay to the TV companies and sponsors for the tour the PCB might have to incur? Are the ICC paying the big bucks or will they leave the PCB in the lurch like they did the Sri Lankan cricket board. Way to promote international cricket when you are leading major test nations to bankruptcy by not saving their financial skin.

 

[Burgey]

Bullcrap that Cricket Australia is deciding not to tour as a board. I don't have a huge problem with individual players deciding against it. They have the danger of allowing some one else to take their spots and if the danger to their life is really felt that much by them, so be it. The board deciding to not send the team is really dire though.

- Australia A and Australia under-19 toured Pakistan not that long ago if I am not wrong.

- Just before India's historic 2004 tour to Pakistan, there was an assasination attempt at Musharaff and yet India toured the country. If India, the worst enemy Pakistan has had historically, can tour Pakistan and be safe, surely, other boards do not have much ground to cancel such tours.

What saddens me most is that the PCB is not a very powerful board and is tolerating this bull**** from Australia. They may not have much choice too sadly.

Who would compensate the PCB for the compensations they might have to pay to the TV companies and sponsors for the tour the PCB might have to incur? Are the ICC paying the big bucks or will they leave the PCB in the lurch like they did the Sri Lankan cricket board. Way to promote international cricket when you are leading major test nations to bankruptcy by not saving their financial skin.

You make some good points there mate,particularly vis a vis the difference between individuals not going as opposed to the board deciding.
Re. the compensation issue, again I think you're right. But no doubt CA had the same thoughts about India threatening to pull out of Australia because the of the HBS issue, which threat was just as dire. But let's not open that up all over again.

Seems to me that, if it was ok for Aus A to go there, then why not Australia? That's a question which I think CA will have difficulty answering in any logical way.

 

[Richard]

Bullcrap that Cricket Australia is deciding not to tour as a board. I don't have a huge problem with individual players deciding against it. They have the danger of allowing some one else to take their spots and if the danger to their life is really felt that much by them, so be it. The board deciding to not send the team is really dire though.

- Australia A and Australia under-19 toured Pakistan not that long ago if I am not wrong.

- Just before India's historic 2004 tour to Pakistan, there was an assasination attempt at Musharaff and yet India toured the country. If India, the worst enemy Pakistan has had historically, can tour Pakistan and be safe, surely, other boards do not have much ground to cancel such tours.

What saddens me most is that the PCB is not a very powerful board and is tolerating this bull**** from Australia. They may not have much choice too sadly.

Who would compensate the PCB for the compensations they might have to pay to the TV companies and sponsors for the tour the PCB might have to incur? Are the ICC paying the big bucks or will they leave the PCB in the lurch like they did the Sri Lankan cricket board. Way to promote international cricket when you are leading major test nations to bankruptcy by not saving their financial skin.

Agree, pretty much completely. Possibly the best post on the thread so far.

 

[Top_Cat]

You make some good points there mate,particularly vis a vis the difference between individuals not going as opposed to the board deciding.
Re. the compensation issue, again I think you're right. But no doubt CA had the same thoughts about India threatening to pull out of Australia because the of the HBS issue, which threat was just as dire. But let's not open that up all over again.

Seems to me that, if it was ok for Aus A to go there, then why not Australia? That's a question which I think CA will have difficulty answering in any logical way.

Not at all. The senior team is a bigger target than an Australia A team. Why? Bigger audience, better known faces, etc. Same goes with the Aus U/19 team. Anyone hell-bent on doing something as overt as targeting a non-combatant enemy will pick the group likely to get the biggest exposure worldwide. It's why Munich 1972 was so 'successful' even though all bar three of the terrorists died. Aust A is different to the senior side.

As it stands, I agree that the Aussies are unlikely to be a target because of the flipside of the ideological coin; targeting a sporting team will not garner sympathy, only angst and won't have the effect of terrorising the Australian public. It'll just be perceived as mindless killing. The aim of a terrorist attack is as much to make a point as it is to kill so it's be strategically inept for any group to do so. And as has been said, other higher profile targets have gone there and been safe. That said, I'd have no problem with individual players opting out, especially if the info from DFAT is half accurate. No-one should be forced to risk their lives in their place of work, even if the risk isn't considered high by one party.

 

[Sanz]

Bullcrap that Cricket Australia is deciding not to tour as a board. I don't have a huge problem with individual players deciding against it. They have the danger of allowing some one else to take their spots and if the danger to their life is really felt that much by them, so be it. The board deciding to not send the team is really dire though.

- Australia A and Australia under-19 toured Pakistan not that long ago if I am not wrong.

- Just before India's historic 2004 tour to Pakistan, there was an assasination attempt at Musharaff and yet India toured the country. If India, the worst enemy Pakistan has had historically, can tour Pakistan and be safe, surely, other boards do not have much ground to cancel such tours.

What saddens me most is that the PCB is not a very powerful board and is tolerating this bull**** from Australia. They may not have much choice too sadly.

Who would compensate the PCB for the compensations they might have to pay to the TV companies and sponsors for the tour the PCB might have to incur? Are the ICC paying the big bucks or will they leave the PCB in the lurch like they did the Sri Lankan cricket board. Way to promote international cricket when you are leading major test nations to bankruptcy by not saving their financial skin.

Very Well Said Mr. Agarwal.

 

[social]

Bullcrap that Cricket Australia is deciding not to tour as a board. I don't have a huge problem with individual players deciding against it. They have the danger of allowing some one else to take their spots and if the danger to their life is really felt that much by them, so be it. The board deciding to not send the team is really dire though.

- Australia A and Australia under-19 toured Pakistan not that long ago if I am not wrong.

- Just before India's historic 2004 tour to Pakistan, there was an assasination attempt at Musharaff and yet India toured the country. If India, the worst enemy Pakistan has had historically, can tour Pakistan and be safe, surely, other boards do not have much ground to cancel such tours.

What saddens me most is that the PCB is not a very powerful board and is tolerating this bull**** from Australia. They may not have much choice too sadly.

Who would compensate the PCB for the compensations they might have to pay to the TV companies and sponsors for the tour the PCB might have to incur? Are the ICC paying the big bucks or will they leave the PCB in the lurch like they did the Sri Lankan cricket board. Way to promote international cricket when you are leading major test nations to bankruptcy by not saving their financial skin.

I think you'll find that the ICC shifted the women's world cup to SA because of the political unrest. This tournament was due to take place in November (after the Australia A and under 19 tours incidentally) and the move was supported by most of the major cricketing countries including India

Have things improved since that time? No

Knowing that the chances of the tour going ahead, some time ago the Pakistan board took the rare step of insuring the tv contract

Given this background, you'd have to question the logic of sticking with the tour

Chances are that they couldve lined up a replacement series somewhere if they had given themselves time

 

[Pratters]

Re. the compensation issue, again I think you're right. But no doubt CA had the same thoughts about India threatening to pull out of Australia because the of the HBS issue, which threat was just as dire. But let's not open that up all over again.

Regardless of whether the threat was dire or not, the main issue is that the ICC will ask for penalties from boards when they leave tours midway. However, they wont compensate boards who have to face the brunt of the television companies and sponsors like they wouldn't compensate Cricket Australia or the Sri Lankan Cricket Board. That is double standards by the ICC which is dire.

 

[sideshowtim]

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/pakvaus/content/current/story/337887.html

Given that it can sometimes take a month to acclimatise to a place (especially one like Pakistan), I give us no chance of doing anything decent on this tour. We will be decimated.

 

[sideshowtim]

I like this though:

"Last week Pakistan suggested Sri Lanka as an alternative venue, should Australia not be content with the security arrangements, and India has also been mentioned as a possible substitute."

Why aren't we going along with this? Both places would be fine.

 

[chaminda_00]

I like this though:

"Last week Pakistan suggested Sri Lanka as an alternative venue, should Australia not be content with the security arrangements, and India has also been mentioned as a possible substitute."

Why aren't we going along with this? Both places would be fine.

Using the logic that Pakistan is not safe. Sri Lanka is worse then Pakistan right now. Also I'm not sure how many Test grounds will be free during that time in India. As IPL will play most of their matches at the main Test grounds.

 

[sideshowtim]

Using the logic that Pakistan is not safe. Sri Lanka is worse then Pakistan right now. Also I'm not sure how many Test grounds will be free during that time in India. As IPL will play most of their matches at the main Test grounds.

I have an inkling that they're trying to fit the whole tour in before the IPL...

 

[chaminda_00]

I have an inkling that they're trying to fit the whole tour in before the IPL...

Unless they move the West Indies series back as well. The players will still miss a couple weeks of the IPL. So it would be kind of pointless.

 

[silentstriker]

IMO India should refuse citing security concerns. There are terrorist problems in India too. If Australian board doesn't want to play because of stupid reasons, then it's on them.