Australia's tour to Pakistan unlikely

[Beleg]

Pakistan should stop playing international cricket and focus on developing cricket internally.

 

[silentstriker]

How did South Africa exactly ’ran out’. A bomb went off less than 600 meters away from their hotel, killed a bunch of people near a shopping mall frequented by tourists and then the people looking after them and the Sri Lanka government announced that they could no longer guarantee any of their safety. A clear rationale for anyone to get the **** out.

Except touring sides are not and have never been the target of the terrorist. I'll bet you that the chance of you getting killed is a lot higher in any South African major city than in Colombo.

 

[TT Boy]

Except touring sides are not and have never been the target of the terrorist. I'll bet you that the chance of you getting killed is a lot higher in any South African major city than in Colombo.

Of course but…

FCO- 'South Africa has a very high level of crime, including rape and murder. However, most cases occur in the townships and in areas away from the main tourist destinations. The South African authorities give high priority to protecting tourists. Tourism police are deployed in several of the large towns.'

FCO- 'There is a high threat from terrorism in Sri Lanka. Fatal attacks have become more frequent. They have occurred in Colombo and throughout Sri Lanka, including places frequented by expatriate and foreign travellers. Further attacks may occur at any time. There is an increasing risk of British nationals being caught up in an attack.'

So unless South Africa starting playing international games around Berea or Hillbrow 'we' should be alright.

 

[Burgey]

Except touring sides are not and have never been the target of the terrorist. I'll bet you that the chance of you getting killed is a lot higher in any South African major city than in Colombo.

That's so, but you don't have to be a target of a suicide bomber to get blown up by one. If one of the Saffie players had been half a K down the street, he'd have been collateral damage.

 

[FRAZ]

it falls into the zero care factor basket

haha ! http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1428893
You are funny and quite un-accurate at hiding your categorization !!!
haha !

 

[silentstriker]

That's so, but you don't have to be a target of a suicide bomber to get blown up by one. If one of the Saffie players had been half a K down the street, he'd have been collateral damage.

The chance of you being blown up as a collateral damage by a suicide bomber is about an order of magnitude less than being killed in a normal robbery attempt as a rich tourist in any cricket playing country in the world. If the players didn't feel safe, fine and I can understand them wanting to leave (and specific players should be allowed to if they feel unsafe). But that belief is irrational and bereft of logic. Because I don't really recall many articles in the Aussie press that told Ponting and his men to leave the UK. Michael Holding is absolutely right on this issue:

"When bombs go off in Karachi and Colombo everyone wants to go home. When bombs go off in London, no one says anything. That is first-world hypocrisy and we have to live with it.".


I am not criticizing the players themselves - you can't control what they feel themselves. The boards should act with a little more sense though.

 

[Richard]

As I've said several times, there was certainly not zero in the way of consideration of withdrawl from Australia in 2005. Though it's hard to escape the fact that the "familiarity" of the UK is far more reassurring even if there are bombs going off than "unfamiliar" Pakistan.

 

[Sanz]

Having said all that though, I couldn't fault CA for being nervous. They're not from Pakistan so don't know true ground realities there. They see violence and bombings in the news and perceive a threat to their player's safety. I would be very sad if they didn't tour, but I would have to accept their reasoning.

Please forgive me If I sound too harsh, but this kind of attitude has encouraged countries like Australia to create a fuss about touring Pakistan/SriLanka. Aussies have no problem in lining up for the lucrative coaching positions on the subcontinent. It is about money, If the IPL was held in Lahore and Multan they would be the first ones to line up.

Their stand smacks of hypocrisy, after all this is the same team that stayed in London when there were blasts during the 2005 Ashes tour. These Aussie players are bunch of illiterates and mentally bankrupt individuals who should be called Wussies aka citizens of Wuss land. Kamran Abbassi has very aptly described them as 'Cultural Imperialists'.

 

[aussie]

The chance of you being blown up as a collateral damage by a suicide bomber is about an order of magnitude less than being killed in a normal robbery attempt as a rich tourist in any cricket playing country in the world. If the players didn't feel safe, fine and I can understand them wanting to leave (and specific players should be allowed to if they feel unsafe). But that belief is irrational and bereft of logic. Because I don't really recall many articles in the Aussie press that told Ponting and his men to leave the UK. Michael Holding is absolutely right on this issue:

"When bombs go off in Karachi and Colombo everyone wants to go home. When bombs go off in London, no one says anything. That is first-world hypocrisy and we have to live with it.".

I am not criticizing the players themselves - you can't control what they feel themselves. The boards should act with a little more sense though.

Don't agree with that reasoning at all since from an outsiders perspective looking at what goes on in countries in the eastern part of the world on a daily basis with protest, bombings etc you would be in your rights to be tentative about touring that region for anything let alone a sport. Yea this part of the world has one or two issues but its not as common to drive fear into people.

So i understand why the Australians are worried but then again i reckon they would be safe given how well England's tour in 2005 went.

 

[aussie]

Please forgive me If I sound too harsh, but this kind of attitude has encouraged countries like Australia to create a fuss about touring Pakistan/SriLanka. Aussies have no problem in lining up for the lucrative coaching positions on the subcontinent. It is about money, If the IPL was held in Lahore and Multan they would be the first ones to line up.

Their stand smacks of hypocrisy, after all this is the same team that stayed in London when there were blasts during the 2005 Ashes tour. These Aussie players are bunch of illiterates and mentally bankrupt individuals who should be called Wussies aka citizens of Wuss land. Kamran Abbassi has very aptly described them as 'Cultural Imperialists'.

Well unfortunately this is a bit harsh yo. Every country since 9/11 has had worries about touring Pakistan & as outsiders as i just mentioned they are in there rights, so i don't understand why you would single out Australia. Plus i don't know where SRI comes into this i don't recall Australian teams ever having a problem in touring SRI.

With the 2005 Ashes tour as i said also, those things don't happen in our world often enough for people to be that scared, plus Australians are more accustomed to England than they would be of Pakistan thus they wouldn't have been in such a rush to leave rapidly.

 

[BhupinderSingh]

Pakistan should refuse to tour Australia next year.

 

[pasag]

Yeah, I'm not sure how fair that is Sanz, from watching the news and the general media a general perception can be created about a place even though it might be completely safe and nothing will ever happen there. England however we have alot to do with and can see that it's pretty safe there, there's a lot less fear of the unknown when it comes to there. That coupled with independent security reports saying not to go means its understandable players could concerns about touring in Pakistan.

I also wouldn't compare it to SA and other tours in recent times because the concern now is the specific general unrest that has occurred since then.

I also think it's not that illogical that terrorists would target the cricket team if they had any understanding how important they are to Australians and Australia being one of America's staunchest allies, makes them very much a threat especially given their high profile if they'd tour. Not a huge stretch there.

I don't think it's hypocritical if you'd say they wouldn't go now but they would for higher sums of money for an IPL type thing, that's just natural human nature. A person won't want to put themselves at increased risk for their normal salary and job, but compensate them more and they'll do it. I don't see anything wrong with that, you're paying more for increased risk.

As a cricket fan though, I'd be quite disappointed if the tour would be called off. Any time we lose Test matches with the limited amount we have, it's pretty sad and I was looking forward to it quite a bit. Tbh, I reckon every player should be asked if he wants to go or not and it's their choice and if they choose not to, some younger players can be asked and tested overseas. Would still be very exciting in its own way to see those players getting a chance.

 

[Sanz]

Well unfortunately this is a bit harsh yo. Every country since 9/11 has had worries about touring Pakistan & as outsiders as i just mentioned they are in there rights, so i don't understand why you would single out Australia. Plus i don't know where SRI comes into this i don't recall Australian teams ever having a problem in touring SRI.

Lean to read properly, I said countries like Australia., so no trying to single out one single country on my part. And you are incorrect that every country has worries about touring Pakistan. It is only the countries from 'Your World' that have a problem with it. Of course they are within their rights, but so am I do take exception to their hypocritical and ignorant stance on the issue.

As for Aussie teams having problems with SL, just how old are you ? Go read up on 1996 World Cup.

With the 2005 Ashes tour as i said also, those things don't happen in our world often enough for people to be that scared, plus Australians are more accustomed to England than they would be of Pakistan thus they wouldn't have been in such a rush to leave rapidly.

Ofcouse it doesn't happen in 'Your World' and even if the bomb exploded in their pants it wouldn't scare the players.

 

[Sanz]

Yeah, I'm not sure how fair that is Sanz, from watching the news and the general media a general perception can be created about a place even though it might be completely safe and nothing will ever happen there. England however we have alot to do with and can see that it's pretty safe there, there's a lot less fear of the unknown when it comes to there. That coupled with independent security reports saying not to go means the players should have the right to have concerns about touring in Pakistan.

The fear of unknown is going to be there If you(not you personally but the players) form your opinion on watching CNN and Fox and I would consider you an illiterate. If you have no problem in playing/coaching in the same country for more money then I would call you mentally bankrupt.

TBF Only time Pakistan gets mentioned in the western media is when there is a Bomb blast or when they talk about Al Qaida, as if that is the only thing happens in Pakistan. People actually do live there, they celebrate their festivals, they go out and enjoy their lives like most people do elsewhere in the world. I dont consider any part of Pakistan any less safer than Mumbai, Ahmadabad or Assam. Mumbai has had more bomb blasts than probably any city in Pakistan, Try telling BCCI that you will not play in Mumbai.

Also I dont understand how you can consider England safer when it has been observed in last few years that bomb blasts can happen in England too and there is actually not much you can do to control it. At the end of the day it comes out to your preconceived notions about a certain country and your willingness to tour the country. Even in the normal circumstances majority of players tour Pakistan( Subcontinent) because they have to and not because they want to. Very rarely you see a player from England/Australia etc going to India and actually enjoying it, so when they get the slightest sniff to make up their case to not tour Pakistan, they just present it.

 

[Johnners]

The fear of unknown is going to be there If you(not you personally but the players) form your opinion on watching CNN and Fox and I would consider you an illiterate. If you have no problem in playing/coaching in the same country for more money then I would call you mentally bankrupt.

TBF Only time Pakistan gets mentioned in the western media is when there is a Bomb blast or when they talk about Al Qaida, as if that is the only thing happens in Pakistan. People actually do live there, they celebrate their festivals, they go out and enjoy their lives like most people do elsewhere in the world. I dont consider any part of Pakistan any less safer than Mumbai, Ahmadabad or Assam. Mumbai has had more bomb blasts than probably any city in Pakistan, Try telling BCCI that you will not play in Mumbai.

Also I dont understand how you can consider England safer when it has been observed in last few years that bomb blasts can happen in England too and there is actually not much you can do to control it. At the end of the day it comes out to your preconceived notions about a certain country and your willingness to tour the country. Even in the normal circumstances majority of players tour Pakistan( Subcontinent) because they have to and not because they want to. Very rarely you see a player from England/Australia etc going to India and actually enjoying it, so when they get the slightest sniff to make up their case to not tour Pakistan, they just present it.

Would you do your job in an environment of increased risk without a payrise? I very much doubt it. Just because they play cricket for their country it doesn't mean they aren't exempt from normal human behaviour.

 

[Sanz]

As a cricket fan though, I'd be quite disappointed if the tour would be called off. Any time we lose Test matches with the limited amount we have, it's pretty sad and I was looking forward to it quite a bit. Tbh, I reckon every player should be asked if he wants to go or not and it's their choice and if they choose not to, some younger players can be asked and tested overseas. Would still be very exciting in its own way to see those players getting a chance.

Pardon me if I got it wrong but how is it safe for young players but not for the established ones ? And why should this tour not be declared an 'A' tour if they are indeed going to send the younger players ?

Geoff Lawson on the whole Issue :-

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/328761.html

"In all the time I have been there I have had zero concern for my safety - zero," You just go about your job, do what you do."

"Prima facie you think [the unrest] is not going to affect cricket. It happens around the country a fair bit, but it doesn't happen at sporting venues. I don't walk around Lahore looking over my shoulder, it's a normal life."

Lawson said of Australia's players airing their views :- "It's uninformed comment, You don't read the front page of a newspaper and make a decision. If Cricket Australia want to get my opinion - and it would only be an opinion - I have a unique position so I probably have some insight they don't have. They can seek me out if they want to."

Needless to say, similar concerns were made when Lawson took the job and I saw his interview to an aussie channel, it was pretty shameful and at the same time ignorant the way whole panel tried to present Pakistan to their viewers. No Wonder their cricketers and in general their fans are so ignorant about the country.

 

[Johnners]

Pardon me if I got it wrong but how is it safe for young players but not for the established ones ?

I don't think Pasag was saying it was any safer for the younger players, more pointing out that they may be more willing to go on the tour.

 

[pasag]

The fear of unknown is going to be there If you(not you personally but the players) form your opinion on watching CNN and Fox and I would consider you an illiterate. If you have no problem in playing/coaching in the same country for more money then I would call you mentally bankrupt.

TBF Only time Pakistan gets mentioned in the western media is when there is a Bomb blast or when they talk about Al Qaida, as if that is the only thing happens in Pakistan. People actually do live there, they celebrate their festivals, they go out and enjoy their lives like most people do elsewhere in the world. I dont consider any part of Pakistan any less safer than Mumbai, Ahmadabad or Assam. Mumbai has had more bomb blasts than probably any city in Pakistan, Try telling BCCI that you will not play in Mumbai.

Also I dont understand how you can consider England safer when it has been observed in last few years that bomb blasts can happen in England too and there is actually not much you can do to control it. At the end of the day it comes out to your preconceived notions about a certain country and your willingness to tour the country. Even in the normal circumstances majority of players tour Pakistan( Subcontinent) because they have to and not because they want to. Very rarely you see a player from England/Australia etc going to India and actually enjoying it, so when they get the slightest sniff to make up their case to not tour Pakistan, they just present it.

No, you're not an 'illiterate', one is presented with limited information and a notion about what a place is about gets formed and it's hard to get rid of it. I'll give you an example, most people I know that have never been to Israel ask me how I can go when there is so much violence and terror and all that sort of stuff happening there. I tell them that it's quite safe and on the ground there you never really feel under threat. But I understand how most people will come to that conclusion though from what they see on the news and in the media - it's only natural.

You're right, countries like Pakistan and Israel are only ever in the news when people die, but you can't blame the players for the information that they've been presented with. Blame the media if anything. So when that comes together with security reports which say not to go, I don't think there's much wrong with them being highly concerned.

And as I said, they're not 'mentally bankrupt' if they chose not to go here but they did for more money, because for greater reward, a person is willing to take more risk. For example, if a boss asked me to go to Iraq for not much extra payment to my normal salary I'd say no, offer me half a million and I'd be on the next flight out. I'd still have the same concerns about going into an unsafe area, but I'd be more prepared to do so for the higher compensation.

And I never said I consider England safer, I explained the reasons why people think that to be the case and how these notions are formed. Having never been to either country I really couldn't say personally.

I'm not saying their decisions are right or wrong, but I understand them just like I understand Pakistan and their fans frustrations here.

 

[Sanz]

Would you do your job in an environment of increased risk without a payrise? I very much doubt it. Just because they play cricket for their country it doesn't mean they aren't exempt from normal human behaviour.

If I thought the job involved the risks me or my family couldn't take, I wouldn't go no matter what the payrise is. Also before making the decision I will make sure that I make an informed decision and not based on what I see in the news channels.

I will speak to people who live there, read about the place and people and find alternate sources to educate myself.

 

[pasag]

Pardon me if I got it wrong but how is it safe for young players but not for the established ones ? And why should this tour not be declared an 'A' tour if they are indeed going to send the younger players ?

I didn't say it's safe for one and not the other, my point is that every player should have the right to make a personal judgement call and if they don't feel comfortable touring they should be allowed to miss it with no punishment. The same question should be posed to fringe and younger players as well if current players decline to tour until a squad is formed of players that are happy to go.