vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Donald and McGrath the same age? Thought Donald was a little bit older, and may have lost a few years before readmission, but this may be well off.
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Will Matt Hayden go down as an all-time great?
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Definitely. He has really been an excellent choice for Australia.
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So 'if any' was hasty. Six openers in 140 years of Test cricket ahead of him still puts him right up there in the mix at least.
EDIT: seven, even.
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Boy that was an ordinary leave by Haydos in the second dig, wasn't it?
howardj
International Coach
haha Those are indelible images to leave in the minds of selectors if you're on the comeback trail - the bat high above your head (when the bowler is coming around the wicket, angling it into you!).
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Was that the one where he was bowling around the wicket, it pitched off and hit middle?
howardj
International Coach
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Ordinary shot from SRW, you'd have to say...
But he was a bit good, the big fella, wasn't he?
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Nah you and howardj are mixing it up with Haydos' second innings Perth dismissal. The MCG one was definitely over the wicket bowled Ambi with the big leave but second dig in Perth, he was LBW padding up to Carl Hooper when Hooper went around the wicket after the pitch turned into a minefield. Ironically, Hayden was the Aussies' best batsman in that innings and, aside from the one mistake which cost him his wicket, did much to convince people he could grind out a score when the going was tough. It was guys like the Waughs, Taylor and Bevan who fell in a heap all around him which no-one expected. Then he left that ball from Hooper....
howardj
International Coach
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That was his only scoring shot at that time, thought.
How flukey the catch by Phil Simmons off Reiffel, though? For pure weirdness, just slightly below Tubby's catch in the Brisbane Test of that series when he flicked the ball back to him off his boot. Distinctly un-athletic but, well, effective!
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Hmm, maybe it was another time. Vividly remember him leaving one around the wicket. He got his debut ton in that series at Adelaide, IIRC.
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I thought there was an instance when it was around the wicket too. Was it possibly against South Africa in SA?
When Katich was bowled by Gough on debut in 2001, it reminded me of Haydens leave.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Well, I checked about 12, and seven met the criteria....including all time greats like Ravi Shastri. I would bet there are a lot more.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Sehwag and shastri average more than hayden away from home as does taylor.No way they all can be considered greats.
I feel we use the term great to loosely these days.Great is somebody who has peformed consistently for a long period,not just coming into team in friendly conditions when you are in your prime and with so many great bowlers having retired.
Very good-'yes'
Great-no
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Not sure why there's so much hang up about his away average, and the fact that there are blokes who've averaged more away from home. Sure, players like Hobbs, Hutton and Sunny have averaged more away than Haydos, but that's hardly surprising given they're also three of the top four or five openers of all time and occupy a plane that Hayden isn't and probably never will be on.
It's using the examples of your Taylors, your Sehwags and, more bafflingly, your Shastris to put down Hayden's status that I don't really understand. Gordon Greenidge averaged 42 away from home, less than any of the examples cited, including Hayden, and yet I daresay his status wouldn't be questioned to the extent Matty's is.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty comfortable with placing Hayden among the top dozen or so Test openers of all time. And more than comfortable giving him a spot in at least an all time Australian 2nd XI, pushing hard for selection in the 1st team.
It's using the examples of your Taylors, your Sehwags and, more bafflingly, your Shastris to put down Hayden's status that I don't really understand. Gordon Greenidge averaged 42 away from home, less than any of the examples cited, including Hayden, and yet I daresay his status wouldn't be questioned to the extent Matty's is.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty comfortable with placing Hayden among the top dozen or so Test openers of all time. And more than comfortable giving him a spot in at least an all time Australian 2nd XI, pushing hard for selection in the 1st team.
western_warrior
Cricket Spectator
lol its laughable to beleive hayden would not be considered as a great player, or perhaps one day admired as a great of the game. put away the figures and stats for one minute and consider this, if you were an opposition opening bowler and you were ready to take the feild, who is the one person in the world you would fear bowling to??. and the answer to that is quite simply Mathew Hayden, now you might get him early if your lucky, but if you dont there is no other player that can truly take your attack apart from the outset. and make you look like you are an amature, he is a huge part of the reason why australia is were it is today, and i feel perhaps he will be missed most when he is gone. perhaps then he will gain a little more respect, from his criticts. Hayden and Langer were the best opening partnership going around, perhaps ever.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Eight-
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...;home_or_away=3;template=results;type=batting
here we have 14 atleast and that is discounting players who have played less than 20 away matches and those who were not fulltime openers throughout their careers-
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...ualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting
so i guess it would be atleast 20 openers ahead of him.
As for overall career averages-
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...ualval1=matches;template=results;type=batting
And that is of also only whole career openers.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
I agree with everything you said to be honest. I only brought up the averages because someone else said that it would be rare for an opener to average 43+ away. Which it isn't, considering guys like Shastri have done it.