vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Donald and McGrath the same age? Thought Donald was a little bit older, and may have lost a few years before readmission, but this may be well off.
Definitely. He has really been an excellent choice for Australia.Will always, in my mind, be a question mark over him against the absolute creme de la creme of quicks - Donald, Walsh, Ambrose, McGrath. And, unfortunately in the 2000s, because of the dearth of absolute champion quicks (mind, there are still just as many good quicks around nowadays - just not absolutely champion ones) he hasn't really had the chance to erase the aforementioned question mark.
In saying that, he is very, very good though - and it's certainly no shame to be troubled by the blokes mentioned above.
Boy that was an ordinary leave by Haydos in the second dig, wasn't it?Ambrose massacred my 1996 Boxing Day.
Was hanging for that Haydos comeback match.
haha Those are indelible images to leave in the minds of selectors if you're on the comeback trail - the bat high above your head (when the bowler is coming around the wicket, angling it into you!).Boy that was an ordinary leave by Haydos in the second dig, wasn't it?
Was that the one where he was bowling around the wicket, it pitched off and hit middle?Boy that was an ordinary leave by Haydos in the second dig, wasn't it?
Ordinary shot from SRW, you'd have to say...
Nah you and howardj are mixing it up with Haydos' second innings Perth dismissal. The MCG one was definitely over the wicket bowled Ambi with the big leave but second dig in Perth, he was LBW padding up to Carl Hooper when Hooper went around the wicket after the pitch turned into a minefield. Ironically, Hayden was the Aussies' best batsman in that innings and, aside from the one mistake which cost him his wicket, did much to convince people he could grind out a score when the going was tough. It was guys like the Waughs, Taylor and Bevan who fell in a heap all around him which no-one expected. Then he left that ball from Hooper....Was that the one where he was bowling around the wicket, it pitched off and hit middle?
Oh for sure.But he was a bit good, the big fella, wasn't he?
That was his only scoring shot at that time, thought.Ordinary shot from SRW, you'd have to say...
But he was a bit good, the big fella, wasn't he?
Hmm, maybe it was another time. Vividly remember him leaving one around the wicket. He got his debut ton in that series at Adelaide, IIRC.Nah you and howardj are mixing it up with Haydos' second innings Perth dismissal. The MCG one was definitely over the wicket bowled Ambi with the big leave but second dig in Perth, he was LBW padding up to Carl Hooper when Hooper went around the wicket after the pitch turned into a minefield. Ironically, Hayden was the Aussies' best batsman in that innings and, aside from the one mistake which cost him his wicket, did much to convince people he could grind out a score when the going was tough. It was guys like the Waughs, Taylor and Bevan who fell in a heap all around him which no-one expected. Then he left that ball from Hooper....
I thought there was an instance when it was around the wicket too. Was it possibly against South Africa in SA?Hmm, maybe it was another time. Vividly remember him leaving one around the wicket. He got his debut ton in that series at Adelaide, IIRC.
Well, I checked about 12, and seven met the criteria....including all time greats like Ravi Shastri. I would bet there are a lot more.So 'if any' was hasty. Six openers in 140 years of Test cricket ahead of him still puts him right up there in the mix at least.
EDIT: seven, even.
Sehwag and shastri average more than hayden away from home as does taylor.No way they all can be considered greats.So 'if any' was hasty. Six openers in 140 years of Test cricket ahead of him still puts him right up there in the mix at least.
EDIT: seven, even.
Eight-Well, I checked about 12, and seven met the criteria....including all time greats like Ravi Shastri. I would bet there are a lot more.
I agree with everything you said to be honest. I only brought up the averages because someone else said that it would be rare for an opener to average 43+ away. Which it isn't, considering guys like Shastri have done it.Not sure why there's so much hang up about his away average, and the fact that there are blokes who've averaged more away from home. Sure, players like Hobbs, Hutton and Sunny have averaged more away than Haydos, but that's hardly surprising given they're also three of the top four or five openers of all time and occupy a plane that Hayden isn't and probably never will be on.
It's using the examples of your Taylors, your Sehwags and, more bafflingly, your Shastris to put down Hayden's status that I don't really understand. Gordon Greenidge averaged 42 away from home, less than any of the examples cited, including Hayden, and yet I daresay his status wouldn't be questioned to the extent Matty's is.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty comfortable with placing Hayden among the top dozen or so Test openers of all time. And more than comfortable giving him a spot in at least an all time Australian 2nd XI, pushing hard for selection in the 1st team.