Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[Burgey]

And we know for certainty that BCCI indulged in arm twisting ???????????
All we have is Lalit Modi saying that we will go home if Harbhajan is convicted....but that does not necessarily amount to the official position of the BCCI does it , given it is a complex political body with lots of competing factions.

Like I said, its pure media speculation on what the BCCI did or didn't do.....

I think parking a Boeing 737 on the tarmac of the closest major airport, and bringing your ODI players from another city to be close to that aircraft so they can hop on it in the event that the indepepndent appeal hearing finds aginst you probably consitutes arm twisting. In fact, it probably constitutes bamboo under the fingernails.

 

[Burgey]

I think there was always a very good chance that Harbhajan was going to be acquitted given the nature of the evidence lined up against him irrespective of what the BCCI did or didn't do..

And Sala, I think if that was allowed to take place no one would give a rats about the outcome, because I and a lot of others were very much surprised at Proctor's initial finding.

The ICC really put it's referee, untrained in legal matters, in an untenable position here. From now on imo, in the interests of fairness, only BCCI officials should be put in that position, just to avoid any "misunderstandings"

 

[rama_v]

I think parking a Boeing 737 on the tarmac of the closest major airport, and bringing your ODI players from another city to be close to that aircraft so they can hop on it in the event that the indepepndent appeal hearing finds aginst you probably consitutes arm twisting. In fact, it probably constitutes bamboo under the fingernails.

"Indian team laughs off chartered plane reports"

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/007200801301323.htm

Melbourne (PTI): The Indian cricket team on Wednesday rubbished media reports here that it had chartered a plane to fly back home in case Harbhajan Singh was not cleared of racial abuse charges.

The team which arrived here on Wednesday afternoon to play a one-off Twenty20 match against Australia on Friday ahead of the ODI tri-series also involving Sri Lanka, rubbished the reports.

The team's media manager M V Sridhar said the visitors had not even thought of such a move.

"I don't know where that came from. There was no thinking like that at all," Sridhar was quoted as saying in 'The Age'.

Sridhar said the Indians were satisfied with the lifting of three-Test ban on Harbhajan and looking forward to get on with the game.

"After what happened on Tuesday, we're going forward so that the game goes on," he said.

The team is scheduled to train at the Melbourne Cricket Ground on Wednesday evening.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Hmmm. Not a lot there except outright denial. What was the evidence behind the alleged story of Adelaidegate?

 

[Burgey]

Non-coloured people do NOT get to decide what they may say and should not be construed as racism..

What about this bloke, who you presumably now think isn't black?

Please dispense the Political Correctness. Unless you are looking for trouble, do not even attempt trying to go to the door of a black guy and try teaching him what you feel racism should be. That is not me speaking from a point of view of vengeance, that is plain common sense, unless you have a deathwish. .

Ooh, this from the bloke who, several pages ago told me not to make posts talking about the reactions you'd get from black people in Harlem if you called them "monkey". You sure you're not with the BCCI or CA? Your willingness to depart from anything like a consistently principled position in ths argument would suggest you may well be.

Ha ha..............your stand is laughable...........when a particular race is oppressed its downright arrogant if someone who belongs to the oppressor race(even well meaningfully) to even suggest to the oppressed that his view on Oppression are valid. Please go fly a kite.

Behold Andrew Symonds - THE GREAT REPRESSOR!!

For the 448th time, get it into your fairly non-thin skull - Andrew Symonds is a black bloke. He complained about being racially abused by another bloke who he said used a term which that bloke had been told by Symonds was racially offensive to him. I really find it incomprehensible that you just seem to ignore that fact. Oh, and of course you manage to overlook the fact that the BCCI agreed to the anti-racism stance in the first place, so it's hardly a case of the white guys just trying to keep down the oppressed coloureds - it was a system agreed to by all the countries in the ICC.

 

[chaminda_00]

Surprised people are still basing their views on what they read in the papers or see on TV. I haven't read or seen any reports that haven't been basically baised towards one side or the other. If anything this whole thing should just show people you can't just believe what you read in the papers or see on TV.

 

[Burgey]

"Indian team laughs off chartered plane reports"

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/007200801301323.htm

Well, to adopt what appears to be an acceptable position for sirdj and others around here:

"Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?" Of course, it's not a logical response, but apparently it's ok to use it as part of your argument around here.

Well, good on them if they didn't get a plane, but a really big part of me now wishes they had gone home frankly.

They were muttering right up to yesterday about the tour still being off if he was convicted.

I can only imagine the indignation if CA just uses any bloody pretence to bung something on like this when Australia tour India - maybe use the crowd taunts, or some bad umpiring, or the fact that Harbhajan really is a **** as a reason just to say:

"Nup, we're not happy - we're going home. It's a matter of honour you see. We consider ourselves really, really offended. And if our bloke doesn't get off that charge for saying bastard or whatever word we don't think is offensive, well you know the TV rights holder might want to sue you as host for millions when we go home. What's that? Our bloke got off? Oh great. What a surprise - we really just want to get on with the tour and we're really looking forward to our next game, etc etc".

 

[Burgey]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Story...line=Race+slur+off+Bhajji+after+backroom+pact



Now we know what happened.

You're right. I believe it. The in-house lawyer retained by CA would leak confidential, privileged talks with his clients to the bloody Hindustan Times or to the BCCI so they could tell the Hindustan Times.

And he did it right befiore he handed in his practising certificate before they struck him off.

 

[Malleeboy]

I don't often remember opposing players patting the other teams' players regularly on the backside, sure players in the same side but I can't remember it as common occurrence for opposing sides. I think the aussie are just over reacting to the situation and not seeing the endless possibilites this decision leaves them.

Next match they play against Harbajhan, and he bowls a good ball, the grapple tackle has got to be the right way in the spirit of game to say well done. Well according to this judge.

 

[Burgey]

They don't. But when the Aussies reported Harbhajan, they should have said that what he said to Symonds sounded a bit like "monkey" but could have been something in his native language. As far as I know, it was reported as a "monkey" slur, and the suspect was handed the ban.

Excpet the judge stated that he accepted that hte players thought they heard the term monkey, not that they heard something like monkey.

Reading that judgment, how laughable was the record of proceediings before Proctor? 4 or 5 hours into 4 or 5 pages? No recording? Amateur hour. Would think by now the ICC could have had a transcript taken at hearing like this. Good God.

 

[biased indian]

"Nup, we're not happy - we're going home. It's a matter of honour you see. We consider ourselves really, really offended. And if our bloke doesn't get off that charge for saying bastard or whatever word we don't think is offensive, well you know the TV rights holder might want to sue you as host for millions when we go home. What's that? Our bloke got off? Oh great. What a surprise - we really just want to get on with the tour and we're really looking forward to our next game, etc etc".

Na...CA wont do that ... if they do india wont tour Aus next time and again they will be the one in trouble..becuse a touring indian team bring with it BIG TV DEALS

Just have to live with the fact that BCCI atleast for the next 10-15 years..will Rule ICC.you like it or not..wether it bad for cricket or no

sadly Money rules ......over every thing...

And to be 100% true deep inside me i am loving it very very little

 

[Burgey]

Na...CA wont do that ... if they do india wont tour Aus next time and again they will be the one in trouble..becuse a touring indian team bring with it BIG TV DEALS

Just have to live with the fact that BCCI atleast for the next 10-15 years..will Rule ICC.you like it or not..wether it bad for cricket or no

sadly Money rules ......over every thing...

And to be 100% true deep inside me i am loving it very very little

Yeah, you're probably right. Still if the crowds throw that racist (or is it? not according to some) monkey crap at Symonds or do their usual mindles effigy rubbish, why wouldn't the players pull the pin?

I'm now beginning to understand the hatred which some Indian supporters here have expressed for some Aussie players, coz frankly I feel it towards Indian cricket, the BCCI and the holier than thou Indian team. I'd hoped not to feel that way, to be above that sort of thing, but it's very, very difficult. I really liked players like Tendulkar and Kumble especially (Ganguly was always an over-rated putz), but about now V V S is the only bloke I'd like to watch. Tendulkar's still a great player I guess, but Kumble lost me with the "spirit of cricket" thing combined with my viewing of that video of his abusing Yousuf in the recent Pakistan series. The man's a cast iron hypocrite imo.

Frankly, right now I wouldn't care if we didn't play India, and I don't want to feel that way because I'm very bitter about this whole episode - not the verdict, but how it was arrived at and the manner in which the BCCI made their threats about cancelling tours and the like.

And, I really don't want to feel this way about India, coz every 15-20 years they actually do produce a batsman who hits it when it bounces above waist height, or a bowler who doesn't go to water on a pitch which isn't a dust bowl on day one (see, I am bitter). But, there's always this consistent theme there in recent times - every loss, there's an excuse or temper tantrum - get rid of an umpire; blame the other side for the way they play the game; don't acknowledge we got outplayed or capitulated on day 5 in Sydney; if our mediocre offie gets suspended we'll go home; oh so-and-so copped a shocker, never mind the other 9 of us didn't last 4 hours.

Then of course, when the one win in however many tests or series comes along, it's the dawning of a new era. It never has been so far - hopefully the BCCI will continue to be India's only dominant part of the game, and they'll fail on the field. I really hope that happens now, and I didn't before. I think I'd even go for England over India now, and that's saying something.

Then again, it's late and I'll probably feel a whole lot different in the morning. Especially the part about England .

 

[Top_Cat]

sadly Money rules ......over every thing...

Which is why, even if there was a plane on the tarmac ready to go, the Indians weren't going anywhere.

 

[Pratters]

Which is why, even if there was a plane on the tarmac ready to go, the Indians weren't going anywhere.

Haha, yeah.

 

[Burgey]

Which is why, even if there was a plane on the tarmac ready to go, the Indians weren't going anywhere.

You're right, of course. But their influence meant that CA could hardly afford to treat their threats as idle, much as it would have been great to do so.

 

[sideshowtim]

Yeah, you're probably right. Still if the crowds throw that racist (or is it? not according to some) monkey crap at Symonds or do their usual mindles effigy rubbish, why wouldn't the players pull the pin?

I'm now beginning to understand the hatred which some Indian supporters here have expressed for some Aussie players, coz frankly I feel it towards Indian cricket, the BCCI and the holier than thou Indian team. I'd hoped not to feel that way, to be above that sort of thing, but it's very, very difficult. I really liked players like Tendulkar and Kumble especially (Ganguly was always an over-rated putz), but about now V V S is the only bloke I'd like to watch. Tendulkar's still a great player I guess, but Kumble lost me with the "spirit of cricket" thing combined with my viewing of that video of his abusing Yousuf in the recent Pakistan series. The man's a cast iron hypocrite imo.

Frankly, right now I wouldn't care if we didn't play India, and I don't want to feel that way because I'm very bitter about this whole episode - not the verdict, but how it was arrived at and the manner in which the BCCI made their threats about cancelling tours and the like.

And, I really don't want to feel this way about India, coz every 15-20 years they actually do produce a batsman who hits it when it bounces above waist height, or a bowler who doesn't go to water on a pitch which isn't a dust bowl on day one (see, I am bitter). But, there's always this consistent theme there in recent times - every loss, there's an excuse or temper tantrum - get rid of an umpire; blame the other side; don't acknowledge we got outplayed or capitulated on day 5 in Sydney; if our mediocre offie gets suspended we'll go home; oh so-and-so copped a shocker, never mind the other 9 of us didn't last 4 hours.

Then of course, when the one win in however many tests or series comes along, it's the dawning of a new era. It never has been so far - hopefully the BCCI will continue to be India's only dominant part of the game, and they'll fail on the field. I really hope that happens now, and I didn't before. I think I'd even go for England over India now, and that's saying something.

Then again, it's late and I'll probably feel a whole lot different in the morning. Especially the part about England .

Great post. Can't disagree with much there.

 

[silentstriker]

Which is why, even if there was a plane on the tarmac ready to go, the Indians weren't going anywhere.

Haha, yeah.

Yup. As I said before, the BCCI has a vindictive streak to it. They were treated badly for most of cricket history, and it fostered a lot of ill feeling towards the MCC in the Indian cricket establishment, and now that they can, they want to 'give it back' at every opportunity. They wouldn't go so far as to call a tour off, but they'd certainly like to embarrass people when they can.

 

[Burgey]

Well, it's not like I'm all that happy feeling that way mate. Just hoping I won't be quite so bitter about it tomorrow morning. Bugger it - I'm going for a midnight swim.

 

[silentstriker]

Well, it's not like I'm all that happy feeling that way mate. Just hoping I won't be quite so bitter about it tomorrow morning. Bugger it - I'm going for a midnight swim.

Burgey, regarding Tendulkar:

In a 22-page document that detailed the reasons for his decision, it emerged that Sachin Tendulkar's word could have had a big role to play too. Unlike Mike Procter, who thought Tendulkar was not in a position to hear what was uttered, Hansen said "extensive video footage" establishes that Tendulkar "was within earshot and could have heard the words".

Tendulkar said he heard Harbhajan "use a term in his native tongue "teri maa ki" which appears to be pronounced with an "n". He said this is a term that sounds like "monkey" and could be misrepresented for it."

 

[silentstriker]

Symonds couldn't recall if he had heard Harbhajan use that particular Hindi abuse and accepted that it was a possibility. He also didn't find favour with the judge with his explanation for abusing Harbhajan after he had patted Brett Lee on the back side. Symonds said he had objected because "a Test match is no place to be friendly with an opposition player" but Hansen dismissed that explanation ("If that is his view I hope it is not one shared by all international cricketers").

Michael Clarke's account was critical, considering that it did not coincide favourably with the rest. "It is not without significance that the Australian players maintain other than Mr Symonds that they did not hear any other words spoken, only the ones that are said to be of significance to this hearing," Hansen said.

"This is a little surprising in the context where there was a reasonably prolonged heated exchange. Indeed Mr Clarke went so far as to say that he did not hear Mr Symonds say anything. Given Mr Symonds' own acceptance that he initiated the exchange and was abusive towards Mr Singh, that is surprising. This failure to identify any other words could be because some of what they were hearing was not in English."

Hansen's report included the statement of agreed facts that contained the signatures of the seven players concerned. He also pointed out to the "agreement" between Symonds and Harbhajan in Mumbai last year, adding that it was Symonds who had breached it by "provocative abuse".

And more from the ruling. However, he admits that Harbhajan should have been punished more due to his previous offense in 2001, but somehow he didn't get that information.