sideshowtim
Banned
Just as long as you give me a wrap when I'm right mate
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***Official*** India in Australia
- Thread starter pasag
- Start date
masterblaster
International Captain
I'm sort of hoping the cracks widen up in the pitch as the sun continues to shine on it. Kumble and Harbhajan need to have a big day tomorrow if we're any chance. Although these seem like the closest to Indian conditions the Indian spin bowlers are going to get in Australia, so they need to make it count. I think Sehwag and Tendulkar should be thrown the ball in patches tomorrow too.
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
What consequences? Outright abuse? Fair enough if you think stupid predictions cheapen someone's judgment, but I don't buy the fact he provoked the personal magnitude of what you said at all.
Is it really necessary to take someone's online persona seriously, anyway?
sideshowtim
Banned
You sound like you expected the loss of McGrath and Warne to strengthen the team. I don't think we're missing them as much as some would have you think to be honest. Our bowling in India's first innings, I thought, was very good for a large majority of the time. The thing that really let us down was our fielding. Had we held all our chances as we normally do, we would've had them out for a comfortable score under 400. Even with Warne and McGrath in the side we've struggled to get sides out for under 400 at Adelaide. I am impressed with the way our bowling has stepped up this summer and we've taken every single wicket on offer (ie, We've bowled out the opposition in every innings they've batted without the need for declaration or them winning). Essentially, the good news is, we're actually bowling well. Our catching has just been poor, and that is something that can be easily improved with a bit of extra time. I'm not liking how reactionary some people here are being.
And a moral series loss? I doubt it. I doubt they guys will be lifting the trophy at 2-1 (assusming this is a draw) saying "boy we don't deserve this". Even so, nothing fires up the Aussies quite like a 'loss', so a loss isn't always a bad thing. Even better if it's just a moral one actually
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
QFT, Sehwag especially. Sometimes (well, history shows) a golden arm lasts only a series' length. It's worth gambling on Virender with the volume of runs to bowl at.
sideshowtim
Banned
I'm sure Matty Hayden would welcome that bowling change TBH.
LongHopCassidy
International Captain
Especially if Sehwag learned to bowl inswingers overnight.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Reactionary to the last couple of days, maybe. Clark has had his worst match for Australia, and the attack has therefore looked bare. And by stuffed, I meant "in this match", not "for all time" or "for the foreseeable future".
But I think its churlish to fail to acknowledge that India have been the better team for most of the Sydney test (I'm not saying they should have won, but they deserved a draw), for almost all the Perth test, and so far in the Adelaide test. The one clear victory we had was when they were fresh off the plane with one half of a three day warm up match under their belt.
And I think I'm right in saying that we're really missing Warne, and to a degree McGrath. I say we're missing Warne more because Lee has stepped up, and Johnson has been decent, so that's papered over the McGrath-absence to an extent, but the spinner slot is now a gaping hole in the attack.
Gilly's having a poor match, but its also a continuation of the trend of the last couple of years where the great performances get further and further apart. Now I love Gilly - I have no hesitation in ranking him the greatest keeper ever, but there comes a tipping point in each great player's career where they can no longer demand their place on merit. I'm not saying that Gilchrist has definitely gone past that point, but realistically he can't be too far away from it.
I'm not writing the Australians off - that would be foolish. Apart from anything else, they might still win this match, and that would require a very good performance indeed. Pending what still might happen in this match, they are still probably the best team in the world. But should India win this match, I think that it won't be possible to say they are undisputeably the best team in the world, and that's a big change from how things have been the past decade.
Now, this is not a knock on the players - I think they're all doing their best. Or even the selectors. Its just a recognition that another team (India) has improved, and that we've probably slipped a little. India will have some big questions coming out of this, like can the oldies keep on producing, and if not, can the young players adequately replace them(including in particular batting so well away from home)? And can the young improved players who have bobbed up in the last few months sustain their current performance beyond one season? For Australia the further reality is that the majority of our best players - Ponting, Hayden, Hussey, Gilchrist, Lee and Clark, are much nearer the end of their careers than the start. None of them will be as good as they currently are in another three year's time. There are replacements, and we won't become a bad team, and the fact is that other countries will have to deal with the same problem.
sideshowtim
Banned
Strongly disagree. I thought he bowled very well without luck. The amount of times Sehwag edged him and got away with it was ludicrous. Funny thing about Clark though, he troubles all the best batsmen around, but when it comes to bowling to tailenders, he looks a completely different bowler. His worst match was probably Hobart against the Lankans.
Yes, Gilly is skating on thin ice, but his years of incredible service to this cricket team have earnt him a little more of a lifeline than others deserve. He has had a couple of shockers, but I know he's got it in him to keep going for a while yet, and I'm confident he can perform well at the same time.
Want me to list all the times in the last...oh...10, 15 years when people have said something to this effect? It takes more than 2 losses to go from undisputedly best to being arguably the best. Even if Australia lose this, I doubt there'll be many who will be dumb enough to try and argue that they're not the best anymore. They've just come off of 22 Tests without losing FFS...Of course there is eventually going to be a bit of a lull. People are just so used to us winning, that as soon as we don't they press the panic button very irrationally.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
I hate doing dissected responses - I automatically skip them tbh, because it normally signals a poor debate in progress, but you raise a few points, so I'll do so to make my reply clearer.
No I didn't. But I think a lot of people have thought that maybe it was not going actually going to hurt us too much, as Clark did so well and Lee improving. What I'm saying is that maybe that feeling of optimism that it wouldn't negatively affect us was a bit misplaced.
Agree that our bowling hasn't been bad, but its not been of the standard we've enjoyed during the McGrath-Warne years either, IMO. Lee's been the standout, and apart from that there have been a couple of good performances, and several merely 'ok' ones - kinda supporting what I was saying that "yes, it has affected us". I agree that our fielding has definitely dropped a notch or three - again, we're missing Warne (Pietersen's dig at the Oval notwithstanding) in the slips cordon massively.
I've already seen you argue this point with several people in this thread, so I won't get too much into it - suffice to say, I'm with Pasag in that watching the Sydney match live, I was excited that Clarke's tweakers got us the win, but unable to feel that it was deserved given the help Symonds had got earlier and the way Dravid got chopped off when he was leading a great rear-guard action. India's collapse means that I don't think you can say they deserved to win, but they certainly didn't deserve to lose. So if India wins the current test, that will be 2-2, and given therefore really 2-1 India in my eyes. Don't expect you to agree, but that's my view.And a moral series loss? I doubt it. I doubt they guys will be lifting the trophy at 2-1 (assusming this is a draw) saying "boy we don't deserve this". Even so, nothing fires up the Aussies quite like a 'loss', so a loss isn't always a bad thing. Even better if it's just a moral one actually
sideshowtim
Banned
The loss of Warne and McGrath has effected us less than I thought it would, as I said earlier. We've managed to take all 110 wickets on offer to us thus far, and even with Warne and McGrath in the side there were instances where sides glided past 500. Fielding has been the problem for me, not bowling. I'm quite happy where we're at with bowling at the moment. Obviously a world class spinner would be nice, but not many nations have that luxury...and 4 pacemen can work.
social
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Reasonable summary but:
1. A spinner, not just Warne, was what was missed in Perth
2. Warne was totally ineffective in the first innings of the Adelaide test last year so I dont read too much into India's score
3. 3 of the 4 tests have been played in sub-continent like conditions and in the other, Australia handed the advantage to India by picking the wrong attack
4. Haddin is a test quality replacement for Gilchrist
Where Warne has been missed (and only in the last 2 tests) has been in the slips and cleaning up the tail
IMO, Australia has a very good pace attack in the making but will draw more matches (and also lose the odd one) because we dont have a world class spinner
Realistically, India could be in worse shape because Dravid, Laxman and Ganguly have suffered potentially chronic lapses in form and/or physical conditioning plus they have no reliable openers and no backup batsmen
Having said that, I expect that Australia willlose in India later this year because the BCCI wont make the mistake of preparing pitches that suit the opposition more than the home side
They've been doing that for years now (including Aus tour of 2004). This can be seen in India's declining win % at home. Apart from a few grounds like Chennai, most grounds now have wickets with such slow turn and low bounce as to practically negate Kumble and Harbhajan.
Nate
You'll Never Walk Alone
Maybe I'm a traditionalist in taking someone on their word. Online or not. Outlandish claim = outlandish reaction. I didn't insult him as a person. But I'll have difficulty respecting his future posts on this forum with continued ridiculous statements.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
One? You're worse than I thought if you believe that.
Ugh, I don't want to talk about that game anymore.
Woodster
International Captain
Australia was always going to find it tough to replace Warne especially. Mcgrath being such a quality bowler was going to be tough enough, but the quality of pace bowlers as back up far outweights the spin options.
Brad Hogg does a reasonable job in ODI cricket but Tests are a different game and he does not seem capable to me of making a huge impression. It is unfair to compare him or any other Australian spinner against Warne, but even up against the other spinners in world cricket, this guy does not cut it for me. Which leaves Macgill when fit, we know he gives it a massive rip but bowls a number of four balls. The space left by Warne is a big one to fill without a top class spinner in the ranks, but I'm pretty sure the Aussies will find one from somewhere.
Brad Hogg does a reasonable job in ODI cricket but Tests are a different game and he does not seem capable to me of making a huge impression. It is unfair to compare him or any other Australian spinner against Warne, but even up against the other spinners in world cricket, this guy does not cut it for me. Which leaves Macgill when fit, we know he gives it a massive rip but bowls a number of four balls. The space left by Warne is a big one to fill without a top class spinner in the ranks, but I'm pretty sure the Aussies will find one from somewhere.
burr
State Vice-Captain
Oh well, missed the entire last session, but no wickets down, looks alright to me. Not that I'm even an Australian supporter partic. Having said that, this 'moral' argument re: Sydney test is laughable. Umpires make decisions. Some go against you. Some go for you. And some are as they shoud be. That does not mean justice in terms of test match results, let alone series results, should be summed up in terms of the finger raised or not. Honestly.
burr
State Vice-Captain
Disagree about the slips. Warne was always very fallible in that area. Hayden far better imo