Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)

[sledger]

often find thats the problem with raw these days as well, get loads of pointless backstage crap (like hornswoggle running through the hole he painted on the wall! or Cryme time stealing eugenes pills, or some stupid moment endning in ron simmons shouting "DAMN!") and then we get matches which are crap and last about 3 minutes (mr Kennedy vs Brian Kendrick for example), (or cody rhodes vs trevor murdoch or some other pointless match which nobody cares about). There are also waaaaay more ad breaks than there were back in 2001, we seem to get them about every 10 minutes nowadays, it used to be only between matches they would cut to adverts, but now they just ram their own commercial/dont try this at home/tour promotion down the viewers throats every chance they get.

 

[Barney Rubble]

often find thats the problem with raw these days as well, get loads of pointless backstage crap (like hornswoggle running through the hole he painted on the wall! or Cryme time stealing eugenes pills, or some stupid moment endning in ron simmons shouting "DAMN!") and then we get matches which are crap and last about 3 minutes (mr Kennedy vs Brian Kendrick for example), (or cody rhodes vs trevor murdoch or some other pointless match which nobody cares about). There are also waaaaay more ad breaks than there were back in 2001, we seem to get them about every 10 minutes nowadays, it used to be only between matches they would cut to adverts, but now they just ram their own commercial/dont try this at home/tour promotion down the viewers throats every chance they get.

Personally I think the quality of wrestling and number of ad breaks are directly related. It was pointed out to me recently that the only time you'll ever see an uninterrupted Great Khali match is at a PPV, where they can't have an ad break. If he wasn't so dire, they wouldn't need so many of them, because they wouldn't need to cover up his direness, and better wrestlers would make them more money so they wouldn't need to advertise so much. Everyone wins.

To be honest though, I think if you compare the rosters at WrestleMania 23 to what they're likely to be at WrestleMania 24, things are looking a lot stronger this year. For example - take, say, the 10 most over guys from Raw, the 10 most over guys from SmackDown! and the five most over guys from ECW, and compare them over a year's period (assuming that Cena still counts as part of the Raw roster given his return at WM or shortly after):

Raw @ WM23: John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, Edge, The Great Khali, Carlito, Ric Flair, Johnny Nitro
Raw @ WM24: John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, Triple H, Chris Jericho, JBL, Ric Flair, Mr. Kennedy

SmackDown! @ WM23: The Undertaker, Batista, Mr. Kennedy, Finlay, Matt Hardy, Kane, Chris Benoit, MVP, Chavo Guerrero, Gregory Helms
SmackDown! @ WM24: The Undertaker, Batista, Edge, Finlay, Matt Hardy, Kane, Rey Mysterio, MVP, Chavo Guerrero, Mark Henry

ECW @ WM23: Bobby Lashley, Rob Van Dam, CM Punk, Sabu, Tommy Dreamer
ECW @ WM24: CM Punk, John Morrison, The Miz, Shelton Benjamin, Big Daddy V

Add to that the return of Big Show any day now, and the possible return of Rob Van Dam at any point over the next few months, and things are looking up. Raw and SmackDown! are undoubtedly stronger now, both in terms of talent that gets over and in probably terms of pure talent too. ECW has lost all the Originals bar Dreamer, but it's being used like Velocity now anyway, so you'd have to expect that.

 

[Majin]

Actually IIRC the ad breaks started being **** when they changed TV Networks to Spike TV or whatever they're on now. I remember before when the ad breaks were in between matches and stuff and the shows used to run so much better, then they changed networks and everything went ****.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Actually IIRC the ad breaks started being **** when they changed TV Networks to Spike TV or whatever they're on now. I remember before when the ad breaks were in between matches and stuff and the shows used to run so much better, then they changed networks and everything went ****.

Actually, good point. TNA Impact is the one that's on Spike, though, I believe Raw's on USA, SmackDown!'s on NBC and ECW is on SciFi. But you're right. More wrestling, less non-wrestling should be the formula, but it's not, for some reason.

 

[sledger]

Personally I think the quality of wrestling and number of ad breaks are directly related. It was pointed out to me recently that the only time you'll ever see an uninterrupted Great Khali match is at a PPV, where they can't have an ad break. If he wasn't so dire, they wouldn't need so many of them, because they wouldn't need to cover up his direness, and better wrestlers would make them more money so they wouldn't need to advertise so much. Everyone wins.

To be honest though, I think if you compare the rosters at WrestleMania 23 to what they're likely to be at WrestleMania 24, things are looking a lot stronger this year. For example - take, say, the 10 most over guys from Raw, the 10 most over guys from SmackDown! and the five most over guys from ECW, and compare them over a year's period (assuming that Cena still counts as part of the Raw roster given his return at WM or shortly after):

Raw @ WM23: John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, Edge, The Great Khali, Carlito, Ric Flair, Johnny Nitro
Raw @ WM24: John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton, Triple H, Chris Jericho, JBL, Ric Flair, Mr. Kennedy

SmackDown! @ WM23: The Undertaker, Batista, Mr. Kennedy, Finlay, Matt Hardy, Kane, Chris Benoit, MVP, Chavo Guerrero, Gregory Helms
SmackDown! @ WM24: The Undertaker, Batista, Edge, Finlay, Matt Hardy, Kane, Rey Mysterio, MVP, Chavo Guerrero, Mark Henry

ECW @ WM23: Bobby Lashley, Rob Van Dam, CM Punk, Sabu, Tommy Dreamer
ECW @ WM24: CM Punk, John Morrison, The Miz, Shelton Benjamin, Big Daddy V

Add to that the return of Big Show any day now, and the possible return of Rob Van Dam at any point over the next few months, and things are looking up. Raw and SmackDown! are undoubtedly stronger now, both in terms of talent that gets over and in probably terms of pure talent too. ECW has lost all the Originals bar Dreamer, but it's being used like Velocity now anyway, so you'd have to expect that.

what the really stupid thing is, if you look at those rosters on paper you tend to think, "wow yeah, should be able to put together some pretty good shows with rosters like that, be well up for watching!"

but then for some reason when you do watch, it often turns out to be completely crap, which is an illogical shame.

Again, barring Khali and Mark Henry and Big daddy V etc... the E still have decent enough wrestlers to put on a decent match without the ad breaks, problem is you dont see that many great spots these days, the best moment in wwe for ages was jeff going off the top of the cage, cant remember the last "OMG" moment prior to that.

 

[sledger]

not seen any spoilers on the Subject of HHHs mystery opponent for RAW tonight so what are the odds that its going to be the big show? shows return is meant to be imminent so it coudl well be him, hope so tbh, and hope he wins if it is. Not really sure who else they would have face him who either isnt already in the royal rumble or already has a match at RR, so......

another thing, the way HHH destroyed the raw set last week was pretty pathetic, using a sledgehammer to rip up some cloth, what a badass..... wonder if they will use that as kayfabe for why the RAW set had to be changed to accomodate the HD switch over, I remember when they changed the smackdown set to the current one they said the reasoning behind that was due to the old set being ruined when Ryhno gored jericho through it, pretty stupid but hey...

 

[33/3from3.3]

The opponent will be Big Show IMO.

 

[sledger]

thought it could have been JBL or Batista at first, but as this is a royal rumble qualification match and batista has already qualified, and JBL wont be in the rumble I doubt it will be either of those, whatever the outcome I hope HHH jobs it.

 

[33/3from3.3]

Hornswaggle anyone?

 

[GotSpin]

Bloody oath. Brought all these memories back of those feuds just before WM 17. Amazing days.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Not seen Raw yet, but it sounds dire. HHH's mystery opponents, the incredibly mysterious and surprising Snitsky, Mark Henry and William Regal. OMG how did Trips beat them lolz. Why not Big Show FFS? Only thing I can assume is that they knew he'd get a pop for his return, and they wanted a heel.

And what's the deal with Brian Kendrick finally getting some air-time, only so they can point out that he's small and weak and Umaga can squash him? FFS, London and Kendrick get so badly treated. Especially Kendrick, given that the last time he got the hot tag instead of London was probably when they were both in nappies.

Y2J-JBL is leaving me very cold too, TBH, as is HBK-Kennedy surprisingly. Big fan of all four guys, but these feuds just aren't working. Swap it round and they might - HBK-JBL and Y2J-Kennedy should be gold.

 

[sledger]

Not seen Raw yet, but it sounds dire. HHH's mystery opponents, the incredibly mysterious and surprising Snitsky, Mark Henry and William Regal. OMG how did Trips beat them lolz. Why not Big Show FFS? Only thing I can assume is that they knew he'd get a pop for his return, and they wanted a heel.

And what's the deal with Brian Kendrick finally getting some air-time, only so they can point out that he's small and weak and Umaga can squash him? FFS, London and Kendrick get so badly treated. Especially Kendrick, given that the last time he got the hot tag instead of London was probably when they were both in nappies.

Y2J-JBL is leaving me very cold too, TBH, as is HBK-Kennedy surprisingly. Big fan of all four guys, but these feuds just aren't working. Swap it round and they might - HBK-JBL and Y2J-Kennedy should be gold.

oh dear, what a dissapointment lol, i dont understand why snitsky should be a mystery opponent, or regal for that matter, as HHH has faced both of them in the last few weeks, piss poor tbh.

and yeah agree with all of the highlighted in bold, the lack of santino marrella on RAW at the moment is another extremely dissapointing aspect of things, the way WWE begged Carlito to stay only to have him do nothing is also pretty stupid, wouldnt be surprised if he hands in his notice again soon tbh.

Its times like this I wonder why I bother following wwe anymore, but yet I know i'll watch raw this week, and the next, and the next...so on and so forth.

 

[sledger]

Bloody oath. Brought all these memories back of those feuds just before WM 17. Amazing days.

tbh even the test/eddie feud was more interesting than most of the stuff we get these days,

the fact that the angle I am finding the most entertaining atm is the jamie noble/michelle mcool/palumbo doesnt really speak wonders for the rest of the WWE, the only thing making the mainevent picture interesting at the moment is Jeff Hardy, and he'll be back to mid card in about a week so that'll be that down the pan as well.

 

[Barney Rubble]

tbh even the test/eddie feud was more interesting than most of the stuff we get these days,

the fact that the angle I am finding the most entertaining atm is the jamie noble/michelle mcool/palumbo doesnt really speak wonders for the rest of the WWE, the only thing making the mainevent picture interesting at the moment is Jeff Hardy, and he'll be back to mid card in about a week so that'll be that down the pan as well.

Yeah, although I feel bad for you not being particularly interested in Edge - exciting time to be an Edgehead. 'Taker-Edge at 'Mania is set up to be a classic I reckon, both guys never fail to deliver in main event matches. It'll also be the first meaningful singles feud Edge has had since Cena - since his arrival on SmackDown! he's been buffered back and forth between Batista and being injured, which hasn't done him any good.

The Jamie Noble angle is very good actually - firstly because Noble is awesome, secondly because Chuck's desperate efforts to get over as a badass biker are hilarious given his past as a bleached-blond, effeminate homosexual, and thirdly because Michelle McCool is hot and is now using the Angel's Wings as a finisher. Which is kind of a shame, 'cause it's an awesome move that shouldn't be wasted on a mediocre Diva.

I'm looking forward to the proposed Draft the night after WrestleMania to be honest - I think there's numerous guys who need to swap brands to stay fresh. Batista needs to go back to Raw, Mysterio needs to go to Raw, Y2J and possibly Umaga and Santino to SmackDown!, Kenny Dykstra and Cody Rhodes to ECW.

 

[sledger]

Yeah, although I feel bad for you not being particularly interested in Edge - exciting time to be an Edgehead. 'Taker-Edge at 'Mania is set up to be a classic I reckon, both guys never fail to deliver in main event matches. It'll also be the first meaningful singles feud Edge has had since Cena - since his arrival on SmackDown! he's been buffered back and forth between Batista and being injured, which hasn't done him any good.

The Jamie Noble angle is very good actually - firstly because Noble is awesome, secondly because Chuck's desperate efforts to get over as a badass biker are hilarious given his past as a bleached-blond, effeminate homosexual, and thirdly because Michelle McCool is hot and is now using the Angel's Wings as a finisher. Which is kind of a shame, 'cause it's an awesome move that shouldn't be wasted on a mediocre Diva.

I'm looking forward to the proposed Draft the night after WrestleMania to be honest - I think there's numerous guys who need to swap brands to stay fresh. Batista needs to go back to Raw, Mysterio needs to go to Raw, Y2J and possibly Umaga and Santino to SmackDown!, Kenny Dykstra and Cody Rhodes to ECW.

yeah agree with all those trades, and can see them all happening apart from the Y2J one, as I imagine its unlikely Vince will want to take him off the premier show after paying a lot of money to get him back on the roster. That said if it meant that he could be involved in the world title picture then i would be all for Y2J going to Smackdown, anything to prevent him from jobbing middle card matches on RAW anyway, as long as he doesnt go to ECW, that would really be the pits.

On the Subject of Y2J, anyone think its a foregone conclusion that JBL will go over on him at the rumble? wouldnt be at all surprised tbh. Hopefully the two defeats in a row at a PPV can either kick start him into heel mode, or just start something decent, tbh although he's a ****y loudmouth etc.. etc.. I always thought Y2J makes a much better face, between 2000-2001 he was one of the most over faces on the roster, and did a great job, his heel turn from there when he became the undisputed champ was crap, he suddenly became a pathetic lowlife character, like a crapper version of what edge is now, and the quality of his matches went downhill as well. In fairness his feud with Cena throughout summer05 I would argue was probably cena's best period in the WWE, and the only time in my memory i can think of Y2J being a good heel. BRING BACK THE LONG HAIR AS WELL!!

ps: glad they seem to have scrapped his new "codebreaker" finisher already and reverted to teh walls of Jericho.

 

[Barney Rubble]

yeah agree with all those trades, and can see them all happening apart from the Y2J one, as I imagine its unlikely Vince will want to take him off the premier show after paying a lot of money to get him back on the roster. That said if it meant that he could be involved in the world title picture then i would be all for Y2J going to Smackdown, anything to prevent him from jobbing middle card matches on RAW anyway, as long as he doesnt go to ECW, that would really be the pits.

On the Subject of Y2J, anyone think its a foregone conclusion that JBL will go over on him at the rumble? wouldnt be at all surprised tbh. Hopefully the two defeats in a row at a PPV can either kick start him into heel mode, or just start something decent, tbh although he's a ****y loudmouth etc.. etc.. I always thought Y2J makes a much better face, between 2000-2001 he was one of the most over faces on the roster, and did a great job, his heel turn from there when he became the undisputed champ was crap, he suddenly became a pathetic lowlife character, like a crapper version of what edge is now, and the quality of his matches went downhill as well. In fairness his feud with Cena throughout summer05 I would argue was probably cena's best period in the WWE, and the only time in my memory i can think of Y2J being a good heel. BRING BACK THE LONG HAIR AS WELL!!

ps: glad they seem to have scrapped his new "codebreaker" finisher already and reverted to teh walls of Jericho.

Yeah, although TBH he's only had like two matches since his comeback so if he was still gonna do the Codebreaker we wouldn't know about it.

Agree with him being better as a face, although I did find him amusing as a heel - remember watching a mate's DVD of Insurrextion 2003, the UK-only PPV, and he was out there doing the Highlight Reel and ranting about how Newcastle (where they were, for some reason) was such a crappy poor town they couldn't afford the proper Highlight Reel set, and how he wasn't a loser like Bobby Robson so he didn't deserve it. Great cheap heat.

I'm pretty confident JBL's gonna go over him at the Rumble, TBH. If so, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him make the jump to SD! soon - Y2J probably knows HHH doesn't like him, and he knows eventually he'll get buried by the King of Kings (always wondered whether HBK has a problem with HHH calling himself that...he really should do), so he might do an Edge and jump brands the first chance he gets. Edge went to SD! because he didn't want to work a singles program with HHH, so I can see how others would feel the same.

 

[33/3from3.3]

I think they're kind of wasting Y2J. I mean OK they have him in an angle, Well done. But JBL will either go over clean, or DQ himself. It might be that i don't like JBL, but i really think the E can do better with Chris Jericho.

Also am i the only one who thinks Taker's winning the Rumble?

 

[Barney Rubble]

I think they're kind of wasting Y2J. I mean OK they have him in an angle, Well done. But JBL will either go over clean, or DQ himself. It might be that i don't like JBL, but i really think the E can do better with Chris Jericho.

Also am i the only one who thinks Taker's winning the Rumble?

Nah, Batista or HHH I think.

 

[sledger]

I think they're kind of wasting Y2J. I mean OK they have him in an angle, Well done. But JBL will either go over clean, or DQ himself. It might be that i don't like JBL, but i really think the E can do better with Chris Jericho.

Also am i the only one who thinks Taker's winning the Rumble?

tbh I doubt JBL will DQ himself, as that will just mean there will be a rematch down the line somewhere, and th emost logical situation for a rematch would be am WM, and the E wont want to have a match on the mania card that had already happened. I expect JBL will go over dirty, or maybe kennedy or someone will interfere and cost jericho the match, jericho in turn will show up and dump kennedy out of the rumble, and set up a mini feud maybe?.........more likely is that JBL will somehow escape from the walls of jericho, push over the ref, hit Y2J with a chair and match over, be a nice surprise if something else happens.

 

[sledger]

Nah, Batista or HHH I think.

tbh I really hope not, tbh someone winning the royal rumble twice in short succession takse the egde off the achievement. Should be a new winner each year, in most cases anyway imo. Although granted HHH hasnt won it for a while, he has been champ 11 times, so its nothing new to see him mainevent.